beech333

I bought this on my birthday last year, just because it was at a price I could not pass up, and I was curious to try a SC. Purists are likely to hate the build, but I am using what I have, vs seeking out OEM products. I'll use Campagnolo that I have available, but it will be a bit of a hodge-podge, and I don't have appropriate derailleur guides. The repaint kills my desire to try and make this look original.


Please don't tell my wife I had it in the dining room.

EJM73

sbrudno

Yeh, I have noticed that the wind has been a bit more brisk on the Eastern seaboard of the US in the past month. I have ordered a 24 tooth small inner triple front down from a 28 on a 74 CDB crank on my venerable 1979 Motobecane Super Mirage that I use as a touring bike. Obviously not a single as you have but maybe it is just my getting old but the wind just seems a hair stronger...
Spencer

VintageSteelEU

Finished Superator. Kind of. Found out that Suntour Sprint ratcheting shifters don't hold tension. This might be due to the ratchet being worn out or the clamp being transplanted from a different set of shifters. Something to look into. Or I'll slap Spidel SLJ ones on it again.
The biggest problem right now is the front derailleur. No matter what I do, with chain on the big chainring in front, drive side crank rubs on the outer FD plate. If I set it a bit inwards, the chain rubs on the plate from inside (yes, with chain in the high gear on the back). Tried Suntour Superbe, Suntour Blue Line and Suntour Sprint front derailleurs to the same result. So something I will have to investigate further. Or just run it as 1x6. Crankset is Sakae Ringyo Extra Super Light and the cranks are running very close to the centre of the frame. Definitely closer to the chainring than on any other crankset I have. So this is a bit of a puzzle to solve. I could use a different crankset, but I would have the same issue on any other frame I wanted to use this one on. I think they key thing will be finding a front derailleur that's compatible.
On the bright side, the bicycle is fast and responsive.

sbrudno

Wrong BB spindle?

Mr. 66

The fork is wicked, looks very responsive.

On your cranks, is there a wobble in looking at the chainring to derailer as it rotates. I’m wondering if you have a spider arm that got binged and needs a nudge.

Mad Honk 

VintageSteelEU ,
does your spindle look like this? maybe I can help to source something that will work. Smiles, MH

Sugino MW -68 Standard English BB spindle. I forgot what your BB shell measures.

VintageSteelEU

As for that one, I think I was looking for something to work with Stronglight / Spidel 105bis. I've got a 118mm Stronglight spindle for that, which, whilst not perfect, could still be used. And I got the TA344 - 116mm one NOS, which, as I found on this forum, should also work. As for the Suntour Sprint spindle, the Italian one I have won't work with the cups I have, which isn't a surprise. The length is correct 109mm, but I think it was meant for the Italian pista version of Sprint crankset.Sugino MW I have is also for Italian BB and 114mm. I just got another Sakae Ringyo Royal one for 68mm BB shell and that should be OK, though will throw the chainline outwards by 2mm. I think in the end, since it's for my commuting bicycle, I'll go with the Tifosi Carbon with cartridge bearings, which is 111mm and symmetrical, so the chainline will be affected by 1mm only, which should be fine. Thank you for the offer though

Not much of a rake, so should be able to take tight turns well. Didn't take it for a longer ride yet, will probably try to find some time during the week. I'll probably do comparative ride, Superator vs Matsu|****a and see which one I like more. Though have to figure out the front derailleur first.

There isn't much of a wobble I can notice. There would always or almost always be some wobble in a freewheel based drivetrain, but it's hardly noticable on this one. Besides, when there is a chain rub on the FD cage, it's constant. If I adjust the derailleur so there isn't chain rub, I get the DS crank rub against it in regular intervals. All my other cranksets have 3-5mm more clearance between the crank arm and the chainring. I'm now thinking that perhaps if I find a thinner chainring, it might solve the problem. I could probably also modify the chairing, or rtather its arms and make it a bit thinner. For now I'm goint to try another 144BCD chainring I have, which seems to be a bit thinner. Might try to find a slightly narrower chain as well. Fingers crossed.

The spindle is correct for this crankset, it's also Sakae Ringyo Royal. The length is about 111.5mm. But whatever the spindle length, situation would be the same: when you shift to the bigger chainring and the derailleur is adjusted so there's no chain rub on the plate, the crank arm would still rub against it with each revolution of the crank. I don't see any deformation of the derailleur plate (I held a straight edge to it to check)

bikamper

Still nothing to do with any bicycles. Hopefully that starts to change after Tuesday's doc visit. That said, I almost finished the new counter shaft for the 90 year old lathe yesterday. I'm upgrading the shaft from the messy screw down grease cups I grew up with to grease zerks fittings. I went to tap the M8x1 threads in each end of the shaft and found that I do not have an M8x1 tap. I have the 1mm pitch in M6, M7, M9, and M10. Amazon to the rescue. M8x1 taps showed up this afternoon but it's too crappy to wander out to the garage. I'll have this done tomorrow morning so I can grab an adult beverage later while watching the eclipse from my backyard.

ascherer 

Since @noglider pointed out elsewhere that the NYC weather will be quite fair this week I hauled my International upstairs to give it a once-over. I decided it was time to figure out why I could never get the headset adjusted properly - it’s been this way since I built it the winter prior to the pandemic.


Exhibit A. This was wrapped around the bottom bearing cage when I pulled the fork. It’s a Tange headset, is this some kind of seal? I tried it without and it wasn’t right so out came the headset tools and I installed a nice Shimano something or other from my bin. In the process I mislaid the bearing cage for the top cup but I had a bunch of looseies in the right size and it went together smoothly.



If all goes well I’ll be tootling through Central Park and Times Square come Tuesday morning.

jrg1244

Currently wrenching on what I believe to be a 1976 Bertin C-37, with most components gold anodized like the Simplex shifters and derailleurs, Mafac levers and brakes as well as Mavic stem and Belleri bars. Was lucky enough that this one came with gen 1 Phil hubs, which just came back from service. Should be a fun one, but I have lots of questions! It's a tall one, so I suspect it may be full Durifort tubing. Anyone familiar with these?

noglider 

Well done, @ascherer! @jrg1244, that's really nice. Will you be able to ride it, or will you be moving it on?

Classtime 

I had this problem with Superbe Pro headset on my Cannondale. I was so bummed that it was clunky and then I found a bunged up seal. I figured that there was no way I’d find a Superbe Pro seal so I straightened it out the best I could and tried to ignore the bits that were missing — put it all back together and it’s all good. 😊

VintageSteelEU

Problem mostly solved. Replacing the chainring with another, slimmer one took care of the crank arm rubbing on outer derailleur plate. Which is kind of weird. Sakae Ringyo made lots of cranksets in 144BCD, but it looks like they also had different production lines for their chainrings, with different thickness.At the same time, they never made their own derailleurs. I would expect their top of the line crankset to work flawlessly with top of the line derailleurs available on the market back in the day. Such as Suntour Superbe one, which definitely has a thinner plate than their lower end derailleurs...

Both chainrings are made by Sakae Ringyo. The previous one was Royal, regular RY-5, though modified (there's also Super Light and Extra Super Light and Super Light Triple). The current one is probably some later version of Extra Super Light and it's actually new. Not that the previous one was used much.
The new one definitely is thinner by about 0.5mm or so and that was sufficient. Unfortunately, with the outer plate in a position where it didn't rub on the crank arm or the chain, the chain was rubbing on the forward-most part of the inner plate. In case of Suntour Superbe FD this part is slightly bent towards the outer plate to aid shifting to the larger chainring. I have also dsicovered that in one of the two I have, thread in the lever that the pinchbolt is supposed to go into, is worn out, so the cable wasn't held properly. I might still be able to use it at some point with a thicker bolt, but for now it had to come off the bicycle. Trusty Suntour Vx FD came to the rescue. Lo and behold! No chain rubbing. Other than in wrong gear combinations, which is to be expected. I'm kind of tempted to go with Vx at the back as well. Or perhaps Cyclone MK1 - I have a set of these, still waiting for cleaning and overhaul, but this could be an option.
I might change the chain as well. Wipperman chains are very good and I like them, but they have rivets protruding quite a bit. Which is what makes chain rub more likely.

Shifters were replaced with Simplex SLJ and all is fine now. I will have to try the Suntour Sprint ones on braze on bosses and see if they work properly. If yes, that would mean they might be working fine with a different clamp. If the ratchet is worn out, that would be a shame as that can't be fixed.

But, it looks like the Superator is ready for its first proper ride. Shifting works, brakes work and all seems in order now.

ascherer 

I thought about doing that but I just didn't want to put in the time. It's off to the side now so maybe one day, some day...

EJM73

I live on the coast of Lake Erie cold winds are brutal but I'm going with the old thing. Even on my road bike it seems demoralizing. LOL

jdawginsc 

Those are proprietary little guys. The gap is significant with Levins and not so much with Falcons.

bertinjim 

The full Durifort frame identifies it as a Bertin C 34. Looks good!

jrg1244

It's a rider! Can't wait to get it off the stand and onto my local loop. Will update!

Interesting, thanks. The only tubing decal I see is the Durifort decal on the fork. No frame decals indicating tubing. It's a big one though, 69cm, and it appears to be spec'ed like the C37 frames of the day. Any way to tell what the frame is made of? Would love more info...

SoCaled 

This is where I left this bike after planning to change tires on the original wheels. The back wheel had bent axle and pitted cones, was still not great after rehab. Put this front wheel, from an extra set from I had leftover from a Paramount PDG, that I sold. Back wheel would not fit, spread was too narrow.


After reading up on spreading the rear triangle here, I concluded I wouldn't do it on a nice bike, but this one seemed like a good place to give it a try. Decided to use threaded rod, rather than the Sheldon 2x4 method. Both chain stays are indented so hoping they spread evenly. Failed to take proper pics while I was working, But had fender washers and nuts, on each side, to spread and a couple of nuts stacked on the end to allow me to keep the rod from spinning. Went just past 6" and then released, seemed to be just right when I put the wheel in it slid right into place.


Tires went from aggressive off-road to road slicks. Gearing went from climbing oriented to "go fast". Shifts smooth. Stops on a dime, like frighteningly well, first time I pulled the levers locked up both wheels. Comfortable ride, very different than my Cimarron or Specialized. Need to take a look at size and geometry on the 3 of them and quantify the differences and similarities.
Need to clean everything else up and do some light rust removal. Remove the peeling chain stay protector sticker, maybe a leather wrap? Peel the decals off the rims. The ugly seat is comfortable, but will get a replacement. I am not made about the plastic pedals but they will also get an upgrade. The plan was to fix and sell this one, but . . . we will see

edit: was also planning to upgrade to Deore XT shifters and derailleurs, but test ride has me rethinking the need it rides/shifts/stops great right now.

bertinjim 

jrg1244-

It might be a Bertin C 35. The C 34 and C35 were identical except the 35 had Reynolds 531 in the main frame and Durifort elsewhere whereas the C 34 was a full Durifort frameset. Look at the side of the down tube or the side or bottom of the top tube. There should be 531 or reynolds 531 stamped into the tubes near the lugs if its a C 35. Alternatively, if a C 34, it will have durifort (lower case) stamped in a similar location. The forks will be stamped durifort as well on the inside of the blades near the fork crown.

bikamper

So close to finishing up the lathe project.
A neighbor came by after the eclipse as I was heading out to the shop and bent my ear for an hour. After he split, I assembled the pulleys on the counter shaft and found I missed two counter sinks (sucks to get old) and one pulley will need to be bored out and bushed as it's worn out and no replacements are available. Other than that, another x-ray to the ankle this afternoon. If it looks good and I get the okay to hobble on two feet, I'll back the sidecar rig and ATV out of the garage so I get the ZT mower out and take care of the lawn. That's starting to look worse than my hair.

VintageSteelEU

Following issues with chainrub on the Superator and putting Suntour Vx FD and replacing the chainring I decided yesterday to take the Suntour Superbe RD off the bicycle and replace the derailleurs with Cyclone MK1 I had. Both derailleurs were still awaiting overhaul and this is still ongoing. One of the adjustment screws on the FD is stuck and will still take some penetrating oil and convincing with a screwdriver because I can use the derailleurs and I wanted to ride the bicycle today, so it ended up with Suntour Vx-S I had at hand. So there will still be derailleurs replacement on the cards at some point.
I should have taken photos of the Cyclone set before I started cleaning them. They were both impossibly gunked up and I actually got them mostly because I got a decent deal on the set and was thinking that worst case scenario, I will have a cable pinch bolt for the RD and probably a few other small spare parts. But, after cleaning, they both look surprisingly good. Toothbrush, warm water, detergent and some time scrubbing them did the job.





I hope I'll manage to get them installed and adjusted during the weekend, but there was a burning question to answer: how this frame feels, how the bicycle rides. Suntour Vx-S was a quick and easy way to get the bicycle on the road today. Used it for my work commute, so an hour in total, but over a fairly varied lanscape, with some hills to climb, few long and straight stretches to gather speed, a bit of squeezing in tight spots, some quick turns, lots of stop-start moments at traffic lights, on the rubbish potholed London roads with some stretches of decent tarmac. And part of the journey was in the rain. Overall, a decent test for the bicycle. I'm afraid Tange Champion 2 tubed Matsu|****a / Superbe still is probably my best ride, because from the moment I got on the bicycle first time it really felt like an extension of me. But, this is not to say the Superator is bad. I didn't cycle much over the winter following an accident few months back, so I'm definitely out of shape and the bicycle is way faster than I will ever be There could be also some psychological blocks involved, I wasn't as confident with this one as I was with the other.

The frame feels stiffer than Matsush|ita. It is still very light, accelerates nicely, climbing hills feels good (despite 13-18T freewheel I have on). Spidel brakes are absolutely fantastic. They might actually be better than the Superbe ones or I adjusted them better, because I really like the modulation on these. Different pads (Fibrax on this one) and I think the compound on Fibrax pads is better than on the Jagwire ones. Whatever the reason, the bicycle stops really well, even in the rain. I think a lot of the difference in handling might be due to the fact that Matsush|ita has a tiny litte bit more of a rake in the fork. Not much, barely noticeable, but it takes rapid turns really well.
There are of course other differences, Superbe track pedals have narrower surface than the regular ones (and are slippery in the rain, but that is to be expected and no different from the standard ones). With SR Royal ESL crankset pedals are also closer to the frame than with Suntour Superbe ones, which might be accounting for some of the differences. And I might be more used to Suntour shifters by now, but I definitely prefer them to SLJs. I'd say Suntour Sprint ratchet shifters are the best, then Suntour Power Shifters and then Simplex SLJ. I might consider adding braze-on bosses on this frame at some point and getting Dia Compe Silver for this bicycle. But the immediate things to address over the weekend will be replacing the chain with KMC X8, finishing overhaul of Cuclone derailleurs and getting them on the bicycle and repeating the test next week.



With Suntour Vx-S derailleur. Standard Vx with short cage would be better for this freewheel, but I've no idea where I squeezed that one in.

VintageSteelEU

Had an unexpected free moment this evening, which ended up with replacing Wipperman chain with KMC X8, Suntour Vx-S RD with Suntour Cyclone MK1 and Simplex SLJ shifters with Suntour Power Shifters, kindly provided by Mr Mad Honk. The front derailleur is still Suntour Vx one. One of the adjusting screws in Cyclone FD I have is well stuck. Which is a shame, because the derailleur otherwise looks quite nice. I will try to drill that screw out over the next few days, so hopefully I'll be able to put it on the bicycle soon. Or just get another one.

Shifting perfection (almost) achieved. Because the downtube is metric, the shifters' clamp doesn't clamp quite the way it should and slowly slides downwards. Before that happens, shifting is great. The only chain rub I get is whith small-small combination, which isn't exactly a problem as I'd never use this gear combination anyway. I'll have to remove the tape I've put on the tube underneath and try again without it, perhaps with a piece of rubber instead or perhaps file the clamp a bit. Overall, nearly there.

bikamper

The lathe is as done as it's going to get. I threw in the towel and signed off on 'good enough' versus 'perfection'. It runs quieter and does not vibrate anymore, which were my goals. A win?
The ankle is healing well enough that I can start to put weight on it. I can get in and out of my pick up and my Wrangler. The boot and clutch pedal don't play well together, so the Jeep is staying parked for a while longer.
I moved the IC powered toys out of the garage. That was a comedy of errors. Apparently, both my trickle chargers are lying SOBs and I've become limber as two year old cement. The sidecar rig caught on the last gasp of the starter, I had to use the pull start on the ATV, and the mower struggled to fire, then needed a jump after I shut it down to gas it up. Mrs.B found it quite humorous to watch me get on and off each vehicle.
I managed to get the lawn mowed, while toting my crutches along, So needed it. Weeds are all the same height now. All the IC toys are back in the garage in the order of necessity. Today's plan is to test the batteries and, if need be, retire the trickle chargers and get new. The ATV battery is suspect because I have no idea how old it is. The others should be fine.