rsbob 

Have been reading and listening to increased protein and hydration needs for seniors and decided to implement on yesterdays’ 85 mile 3,200’ ride.

Prior to yesterday: Drink 1 large water bottle of electrolytes every hour and a half. Eat an energy bar about once an hour. Result: Exhausted at end of ride and usually leg cramps. Recovery drink didn’t do much.

Yesterday: Drink 1 large water bottle of carbohydrate and electrolytes (SIS energy drink) every hour. Eat every half hour resulting in many more calories. I was eating SIS energy and Cliff bars cut into quarters. Result: Felt good at the end of the ride (bottom a bit sore on pressure points) and zero issues with legs in the evening. No recovery drink needed.

Conclusion: Keep the carbs and carb fluids flowing.

Of course we all have different physiologies, distances and distances. So just relating what worked for me.

If this post needs to move to nutrition, that’s cool. Just this senor senior’s perspective.

Calsun

On tours going for more than 100 miles each day for 7-10 days I have had a breakfast of pancakes and coffee and snacked on raisins and nuts and then had a normal dinner. I only drink water as unless I was playing football in the heat of the day I do not need replenishment of electrolytes. At the end of my trips my weight is within 1 lb of my weight when I started the trip. The only time I have bonked is when I did a 120 miles ride in the desert in the summer and had a tremendous amount of reflective heat from the asphalt roadway.

Gatorade and similar high sugar or sucralose beverages are marketed as being essential when they are not. They provide a big doze of sodium and that raises blood pressure which is not good for the majority of people. There is a big placebo effect with any fad foods and beverages.

A healthy diet is a better approach:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/e...ficial-or-not/

Iride01 

@Calsun, while I don't disagree with any of what you said. A healthy diet isn't going to win the race or keep one performing at a high level during the ride.

I think what the thread is about is fueling during the ride. I can't eat my vegetables while in the saddle as well as I can down some carbs in my bottle, a gel shot or a power bar of some sort.

Gatorade does in fact have too much sodium IMO. Sucralose AFAIK, does not convert to energy because it's not carbohydrate. So it is of no value while riding a bike. Besides, it's getting some extra bad press right now.

PoorInRichfield

I experienced the same as the OP and wish I had paid attention to on-the-bike nutrition sooner. For decades I'd ride with just plain water and maybe a Powerbar or two (yeah, back when Powerbar was a thing). Off the bike, I try to not eat mountains of carbs and sugar, however, carbs are where it's at when on the bike during any kind of hard or endurance ride. I watched a YouTube video a while back regarding "5 signs you're not fueling enough when riding" or something like that. One of those signs was finishing a ride and being extremely hungry. That was me after every ride... dreaming of eating entire pizzas as I rolled into my driveway at the end of a ride! I now use a drink mix and energy bars, mostly from Skratch Labs, and even on my longest rides I don't feel like I need to eat everything in the kitchen when I get home.

Carbonfiberboy 

Touring is rather different than doing hard day rides. One tours at a moderate pace and burns a good proportion of fat. One doesn't bonk from heat, that's a lack of calories. Averaging only 100w, I burn at least 4300 calories/day doing moderate 100 mile rides in hilly terrain, including BMR for 24 hours. That's a lot to eat back in 2 meals. Take that up to 115w and it's more like 4700 calories for a 100 mile ride + BMR. My practice is to eat back about 1/2 my burn on the bike, mostly carbs, so that's about 150-180 calorie intake per hour for the above power range. Touring, I usually took every 4th day off and spent a good part of it eating. Pros can consume up to 300-400 calories/hour on the bike but they're highly trained both in power and in eating.

On hard rides, I try to establish the routine the OP used in the first 3 hours. That seems to really help. Once one gets low on hydration or carbs, it's difficult to come back. Those bottles the pros get from the team car aren't just water.

t2p

many find Gatorade and similar to be too high in sugar (and / or sodium ?) and will mix it with water

I rarely drink ‘straight’ Gatorade or Powerade or Vitamin Water - almost always mix it with water

79pmooney

I never drink Gatorade. I've been using Vitalyte for 50 years and near a half dozen name changes (but the mix has never changed). Formulated by a marathon runner/biochemist who got sick drinking Gatorade in the very hot Olympic qualifier for the 1968 Olympics. Put his skills into doing better and made a mix that works really well. Never sold out to the big ones. When sports drinks became "the thing" in the '90s, they were so overwhelmed on advertising budget that they pretty much laid low, still making the mix for the relief agencies in the third world. (Cheap and perfect for dehydration from dysentery, cholera and the like.) REI brought it back in the early '00s and has had it since off and on. (Bean counters don't like it. At times employees insist - so they have access.)

Google Vitalyte. They are rock solid and ship fast, 2 scoops per old school waterbottle. I think the cost works out to about 25 cents per scoop.

PeteHski

There are many far better balanced energy drinks than Gatorade. So don’t go lumping them all together as bad news.

I like Veloforte for my energy drinks. It’s basically coconut water with added electrolytes. Easy on the gut and highly effective for me. Plain water on a flat out century ride just doesn’t cut it for me.

I also like Veloforte gels for an additional carb boost during hard, long rides. Their bars are good too, but I find them hard work to eat beyond the first couple of hours when riding at tempo. So it’s gels and liquid energy all the way after that.

On a low intensity endurance training ride I eat very little. Maybe 1 bar and plain water. Totally different ball game.

galyons

+1 on Gookinaid. +1 on "never drink Gatorade". I started with Gookinaid, now Vitalyte in the mid '80's. I am NOT a racer. I am diabetic and ride to train for centuries, now mostly metric. I ride an average of 15 mph, 80-100 miles per week, for exercise, weight and sugar control. I now do a cocktail of Vitalyte, Ultima and homebrew electrolyte drinks. Ultima is similar to Vitalyte, (no artificial colors or sweeteners), but replaces sugars with stevia leaf extract. My local REI sometimes carries Vitalyte and CVS sometimes has Ultima. Occasionally I get a bag of Vitalyle that has clumped, making it more difficult to mix well.

My homebrew is 2 tablespoons of fresh lime or lemon juice, stevia leaf extract, and a pinch of unrefined salt, (red or pink), to 16 oz of water. This is really pretty close to the manufactured mixes' electrolyte compositions. The home brew is readily available as the salt and stevia are always in my pantry. I vary proportions of the various drink mixes based on distance planned, how "hard" I plan to ride, (usually means into the foothills versus the valley) and temperatures. This helps me avoid low and/or high blood sugar.

Next metric century, Sacramento Century, Sept. 30.

Cheers,
Geary

john m flores 

Consuming more calories and staying cool seem to be two of the revolutions happening in the pro peloton these days. Racers are consuming more calories per hour, thanks in part to energy drinks and gels that absorb quickly and don't upset the stomach.

The formula that I've been using since the 80s has been:

1 small bottle per hour (large if it's hot)
1 Fig Newton every 15 minutes, then
1 banana at the top of the hour

That's about 100 grams of carbs per hour. It has served me well all these year but I'm going to experiment with increasing that a little bit.

Here's a related article:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Lifestyle...ing__8621.html

And an interesting video:

PeteHski

This ^

In his interview with Geraint Thomas after the TdF, Mark Cavendish said that this was probably the biggest game changer he had seen during his career. Anyone interested can listen to it on the GTCC podcast.

Mtracer

I'm 62. Several months back I switched to drinking my carbs while riding. I've always used a half-strength Gatorade, as much to hide plastic bottle and stale water taste as anything else. But I started adding maltodextrine to the bottles to the point that each 24 oz bottle has 260 cal (all carbs). A bottle lasts me about 1 1/2 to 2 hours, depending on the heat and humidity. More humid I drink less as my throat doesn't dry out as much from the hard breathing.

FYI, if you're not familiar with maltodextrin, it is a form of sugar, that comes in a powder. The great thing about it is it is not sweet, AT ALL. So, even with a lot of it, it doesn't feel like you're drinking pancake syrup. But it is super sticky. You do not want to spill this in your kitchen while mixing it up.

This approach seems to have completely resolved the issue I was having feeling more tired in the last 3rd of a longer ride (3+ hours). I'm burning a lot more calories than I'm taking in. So, this wouldn't work as an all-day ride strategy, but it works well for me for the 2-4 hour rides. Also, looking at my heart rate data, I have an obvious drop in average heart rate during rides that corresponds with this change. If I'm remembering correctly, this drop is on the order of 10 BPM for zone 2 endurance rides, which is substantial. But, this is far from a controlled study, so I'm not going to claim this is real.

I tend to ride early to beat the heat, so eating a meal before I ride is not something I want to do. Trying to digest a meal and ride is not an ideal combination. Obviously I'm digesting the carbs, but the sugars digest easiest of anything. So, I will often eat a gel before the ride, and in general, I now feel like I get stronger as a ride progresses. Sure my legs will eventually start to tire, but the rest of me just feels better as the ride goes on. I think this is due to those carbs kicking in. I'm sure some endorphins come into play, but this fueling change is recent as is feeling better later in the ride.

If nothing else, I find it easier to drink my calories than trying to undo wrappers and chew while riding.

MinnMan

I drink quite a lot of Powerade on my rides. I don't pretend it's the best and probably my dentist would be a little less rich if I left it behind.

But consuming electrolyte drinks and carbs (in beverages, gels, chews) is essential for me in my rides above 80 miles. If I'm going anywhere above 60, I definitely will be feeding in the saddle every 5 miles or so after mile 50 or so. As a result, I don't bonk on my centuries.

What do people think about HEED?

TiHabanero

I am not a tree hugger type person at all, however I have to wonder what long term affects the processed stuff you all are talking about has on the body. Never have used this stuff and always keep to fresh fruits if needed. Are there any studies on the long term affects of the sports gel, liquids and foodstuffs?

GhostRider62

I do not have the study to reference, so take with a grain of minerals. Basically, once glycogen drops below 50%, power outputs beyond about 45-50% of VO2 max are really restricted.

I was doing a very hill 300Km ride that I had done many times before. It is flat for 40 miles and then wicked hilly for 100 miles and then flat for 40 miles. There are many 10-15% hills of around 10 minutes each with lots of short hard grunty climbs that require more than 50% of VO2 max or lets say more than VT1 or into the functional threshold limit area. I decided to test whether I could consume 400 cals/hr of Skratch labs Superfuel. Quite anecdotal but I set a PB on the route and virtually all of the climbs 100 miles and later into the ride were all personal bests. Nothing in my training would suggest such performance, I was fit and my FTP was almost as good as it gets. The weather was cool and that helps. The route was 12-13,000 feet of climbing with lots of turns, stop signs, lights, etc. I did around 12 hours moving time and around 12:40 total IIRC having to stop for controls, to pee, one flat and a quick sandwich. About 30 minutes better than past when I never bonked but also did not use Superfuel, relying mostly on real food like bagels and bananas. N = 1. YMMV

Mtracer

I don't know about any studies. But it's important to remember, the processed or refined energy sources are being consumed for their energy or caloric benefit, not basic nutritional needs. No question you wouldn't want to eat energy gels and drinks as a primary food. And I know that's not what any of us are talking about. But when you're on the bike and really burning through the calories, it's all about the sugar, whether more directly consumed from gels and drinks, or converted more indirectly from fat or protein. So, I don't think there's much reason to think there is a down-side to consuming sugar that is immediately consumed. At least not in the sense that eating sugar is generally bad when part of our regular diets.

I know some on BF have concerns about dental health from drinking so much sugar. I asked my dentist about this, and they had no specific knowledge, but said they saw no sign it was hurting my teeth, but we agreed to keep and eye on it.

boozergut

Ive been drinking the Skratch Labs super high carb. drink mix. Seems to help a lot....

indyfabz

Hammer Perpetuem. When touring in places where I won't have access to supplies for a long time during a hard day, I will pack one or two single-serve packets. It has saved me a few times.

t2p

Hammer Perpetuem is really good - but I prefer Fear Innoculum

a1a

New to BF and I love the discussions.

I'm new to biking (almost 100 miles per week with longest ride 33 miles, current minimum 21 miles). I live in NE Florida, typically bike predawn and my baseline is sweating a lot. I tend towards a low carb diet (a'la loving wife) but have found two of my strongest rides were after a heavy unintentional carb load the night before. That's not to say I intend to up my carbs to the extreme I did those two nights (which were unhealthy carb loads) but I may look into easily digestible 'good' carbs... thinking of experimenting with cold rice or potatoes (look up resistant starches) and/or bananas with dinner (which I try to get in by 4-5pm). Regarding my ride hydration I need 48 oz which has lasted up to the 33 mile mark (when I start to go longer will need more bottles) and I have found that consuming 1/2 my calculated calorie burn in the form of Gatorade Endurance (am definitely going to look into vitalyte and skratch lab) works best for me.

Can't be said enough but YMMV. Like I said... I'm new and love the discussions so far. Any specific input is greatly appreciated.

deacon mark

I too think this is all about fueling during a ride and what a person needs. That is very different for each person depending on the years they have been riding and how they store and process glycogen stores in the muscles. As the great marathoner Frank Shorter said no specific diet was going to bring earth shattering results and winners. Good nutrition is important but strictly speaking not going effect over all speed and performance on any particular ride.

To me what you consume is way more than I would ever touch in a ride. I normally eat nothing for up to 75 miles and no energy drinks water only. I do normally eat a lot and have a good store of glycogen in the muscles for a ride or I would have to modify my diet. I eat after the ride and then later a supper. If I am trying to ride a 100 mile ride in say 6 hours I need 1 peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some cookies like fig newtons. I would guess I would consume around 750 calories on the ride itself. However, when it was over, I would eat massive amounts but that is me.

Final thought is do what your body tells you and if you listen carefully it will.

pelirary

When I was doing fifteen to twenty mile rides on a regular basis I only drank water and usually only one 24oz bottle per ride. Now that I am doing twenty five mile rides regularly I have upped my water intake to a bottle and a half and two when it is really hot and humid. At the half way point I slurp down a vanilla gel pack. With all that I read in this thread I wonder if I am shortchanging myself on performance. I am upping my mileage next week, before the winter comes, and doing thirty five miles. I will have to reevaluate my plans for ride nutrition.

I'm 75 and in the past have done tours and centuries but long rides seem to be in my past. My goal this year was to do a metric century or a fifty. miler but life got in the way of working my mileage up to it. Maybe next year.