Making Gains after 50?
08-14-23, 05:38 AM
#51
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While one certainly isn't going to be able to put on more muscle as easily at 50+ than he did in his 20s, I've found ways to improve my riding at 50 so that I'm actually faster and can ride longer distances than younger me did. My focus now that I'm older is on nutrition, riding position, and strength and flexibility... all things I was pretty ignorant of when I was younger. I used to hate stretching and doing upper body exercises when I was younger, but now that I'm doing these things at 50, I'm finding my riding has improved noticeably. I can hold a low, aero position much longer without discomfort which helps increase my speed without really getting stronger. I also never thought much about what I was eating or drinking on the bike and in hindsight, that was a big mistake. I can now go for rides well in excess of 50 miles and feel just fine afterwards versus being completely wiped-out when I was younger.
In short, it's not likely your power meter numbers are going to keep climbing as you age unless you put in significantly more effort into each ride and weightlifting. However, you may still be able to improve by looking at "marginal gains" that you overlooked when you were younger.
In short, it's not likely your power meter numbers are going to keep climbing as you age unless you put in significantly more effort into each ride and weightlifting. However, you may still be able to improve by looking at "marginal gains" that you overlooked when you were younger.
08-14-23, 07:18 AM
#52
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Non-humble brag by a 68 YO. There is a local 2.5 mile climb, rated by Strava as a category 4. On October 15th 2020, I did the climb in 11:38., today I did it in 10.50. I have been chipping away for almost 3 years to get to today’s time. Yes you can improve with age + training + rest + good nutrition.
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08-14-23, 09:32 AM
#53
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Age 74, yesterday was a prescribed endurance ride. Since I am preparing for a track race in September, endurance riding has been reduced. This is my 8th interval session in a row. To get in all the interval sessions, I combined a hill climbing interval set with an endurance ride. 4x40second max power. Sorry San Milan, yes, I am combining max power efforts with endurance and I know that violates your sensibilities and research.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
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08-14-23, 11:59 AM
#54
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Age 74, yesterday was a prescribed endurance ride. Since I am preparing for a track race in September, endurance riding has been reduced. This is my 8th interval session in a row. To get in all the interval sessions, I combined a hill climbing interval set with an endurance ride. 4x40second max power. Sorry San Milan, yes, I am combining max power efforts with endurance and I know that violates your sensibilities and research.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
08-14-23, 12:21 PM
#55
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08-14-23, 02:47 PM
#56
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I didn't start riding for real until I was 48, and it took a few years just to get into shape, so yes, you can make gains after 50.
Now I'm 62 and I don't know that I will improve beyond my current or recent abilities, but like a few others here, I keep up with all but the fastest (the real racers) in my area, though I don't myself race. I ride with some the fastest groups in the Twin Cities, (but not the one fastest group) and when I do, I do a great deal of the pulling. This has been the case since my early 50s so i gained and retained this ability as an older rider. How much longer it lasts, I cannot say.
Now I'm 62 and I don't know that I will improve beyond my current or recent abilities, but like a few others here, I keep up with all but the fastest (the real racers) in my area, though I don't myself race. I ride with some the fastest groups in the Twin Cities, (but not the one fastest group) and when I do, I do a great deal of the pulling. This has been the case since my early 50s so i gained and retained this ability as an older rider. How much longer it lasts, I cannot say.
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08-14-23, 03:34 PM
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Age 74, yesterday was a prescribed endurance ride. Since I am preparing for a track race in September, endurance riding has been reduced. This is my 8th interval session in a row. To get in all the interval sessions, I combined a hill climbing interval set with an endurance ride. 4x40second max power. Sorry San Milan, yes, I am combining max power efforts with endurance and I know that violates your sensibilities and research.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
I picked out three climbs on the course where I could do these and it was not exactly as prescribed where I do a climb, rest and then repeat the climb again. This workout is about leg strength training and high power with energy coming primarily from phosphate creatine and glycolytic systems.
I had done three intervals and I was doing the last one on Torrey Pines hill, one of the most iconic (albeit shorter and easier) climbs in San Diego. I cruised up the climb to the middle and hit the gas.
Weight - 166
Time interval 40 seconds
Average Speed 15.5 mph
87 rpm
470 watts average power
140 HR
Grade 5%
I did the same ride and workout last Sunday and I improved my 40 second power by 40 watts. This is probably the best 40 second, seated climbing power I have done over the years. Clearly, not comparing this workout with one I could have done as my younger self but still Phil Gram material although Phil holds that power a lot longer.
Is this surprising to me? No, recently I hired a performance based nutritionist and have been on his prescribed diet for about 5 weeks. It has been transformational - stronger, much better recovery and faster on the bike. And as a kid, I was a 400 meter runner. My nutritionist told me that 400 meter runners are special snowflakes - aren't we all. I have sprint power that lasts longer than most. For my engine to run longer and better, my diet requirements requirements reside in a very narrow range of protein, carbs and fat combination and timing. If I falter on the diet, my capability diminishes quickly. I have experienced this variation over the years as I have a chainless day where everything seems possible and then everything seems hard.
After yesterday's cycling, I went to the gym and did lats and biceps plus some recovery work. Today, is strength training, chest, shoulders and core. I feel great this morning but no cycling today.
My small study, N=1(me), duration 5 weeks - observation for 74 year old. New diet = faster and stronger with more recovery. We will see if this new me holds up over time.
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08-14-23, 05:15 PM
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You've motivated me to look into a nutritionist. That is awesome, you climb. I was probably a special snowflake with a longer lasting sprint, too. I guess it was from ice hockey, the coaches would hit us in the derriere with the stick if we stopped sprinting. I looked up my 40s power from my PD curve, the numerator is pretty good (628) but the denomination is bad (94 kg). I don't want to lose power going on an inappropriate diet. Is there a certain kind on nutritionist that is best? I want to lose some fat and maintain lean mass.
08-14-23, 08:22 PM
#59
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Hernes appears to have found the magic formula. On element I have found out of his experience is allowing for more recovery.
I would go hard most rides and would suffer without recovery. After hard days, I will take a day off and instead work on core, arms and shoulders. I also go for carbs and protein after my cycling which appears to also help.
Today I bagged a polka dot jersey on a UCI course on Zwift after being off the trainer all summer. Evidently all my hill workouts are paying off, virtually. The 98* heat drove me inside.
I would go hard most rides and would suffer without recovery. After hard days, I will take a day off and instead work on core, arms and shoulders. I also go for carbs and protein after my cycling which appears to also help.
Today I bagged a polka dot jersey on a UCI course on Zwift after being off the trainer all summer. Evidently all my hill workouts are paying off, virtually. The 98* heat drove me inside.
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Last edited by rsbob; 08-16-23 at 12:08 AM.
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08-21-23, 09:34 PM
#60
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08-27-23, 07:26 PM
#61
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I didn't start riding for real until I was 48, and it took a few years just to get into shape, so yes, you can make gains after 50.
Now I'm 62 and I don't know that I will improve beyond my current or recent abilities, but like a few others here, I keep up with all but the fastest (the real racers) in my area, though I don't myself race. I ride with some the fastest groups in the Twin Cities, (but not the one fastest group) and when I do, I do a great deal of the pulling. This has been the case since my early 50s so i gained and retained this ability as an older rider. How much longer it lasts, I cannot say.
Now I'm 62 and I don't know that I will improve beyond my current or recent abilities, but like a few others here, I keep up with all but the fastest (the real racers) in my area, though I don't myself race. I ride with some the fastest groups in the Twin Cities, (but not the one fastest group) and when I do, I do a great deal of the pulling. This has been the case since my early 50s so i gained and retained this ability as an older rider. How much longer it lasts, I cannot say.
It was a group of about 14, and their normal Saturday ride is 70 miles, but for some reason it was 90 on this day. These guys are super strong. About half of them are Cat 1s or Cat 2s. The steady clip on flat ground is 25-28 mph. When you get over a hill, watch out because they are full gas all of the time, and they will drop you on the descent if you think you can take a quick moment to recover. I can't pull in this group, but I managed to hang on without getting dropped. At one point they sprinted for a Strava segment - half a mile, mostly flat (Strava thinks it's a 0.2% grade) with a modest tail wind. They took the KOM with an average speed of >38 mph and for that time, I couldn't hold their wheels. A couple of other times I also fell back a bit, but I was able to get back on each time.
At one point about 60 miles in, there was a call to ease up b/c somebody had fallen far off the back. I said to the guy next to me - huh, if somebody was going to get dropped, i would have thought it would be me. He said, "You're doing fine. Most of us are probably 15 years younger than you." I asked, "How old are you?" "32". I said, "well actually, it's 30 years younger...".
I was at my limit for this ride, but I survived it and I take it as a victory.
Who konws what next year will bring.
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08-27-23, 08:31 PM
#62
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Not that anyone will care, but here's an update and a non-humble brag. Saturday, I decided to give that fastest group a try, as I'm in pretty good shape at the moment and I don't know when injury or aging is going to take me down a big notch.
It was a group of about 14, and their normal Saturday ride is 70 miles, but for some reason it was 90 on this day. These guys are super strong. About half of them are Cat 1s or Cat 2s. The steady clip on flat ground is 25-28 mph. When you get over a hill, watch out because they are full gas all of the time, and they will drop you on the descent if you think you can take a quick moment to recover. I can't pull in this group, but I managed to hang on without getting dropped. At one point they sprinted for a Strava segment - half a mile, mostly flat (Strava thinks it's a 0.2% grade) with a modest tail wind. They took the KOM with an average speed of >38 mph and for that time, I couldn't hold their wheels. A couple of other times I also fell back a bit, but I was able to get back on each time.
At one point about 60 miles in, there was a call to ease up b/c somebody had fallen far off the back. I said to the guy next to me - huh, if somebody was going to get dropped, i would have thought it would be me. He said, "You're doing fine. Most of us are probably 15 years younger than you." I asked, "How old are you?" "32". I said, "well actually, it's 30 years younger...".
I was at my limit for this ride, but I survived it and I take it as a victory.
Who konws what next year will bring.
It was a group of about 14, and their normal Saturday ride is 70 miles, but for some reason it was 90 on this day. These guys are super strong. About half of them are Cat 1s or Cat 2s. The steady clip on flat ground is 25-28 mph. When you get over a hill, watch out because they are full gas all of the time, and they will drop you on the descent if you think you can take a quick moment to recover. I can't pull in this group, but I managed to hang on without getting dropped. At one point they sprinted for a Strava segment - half a mile, mostly flat (Strava thinks it's a 0.2% grade) with a modest tail wind. They took the KOM with an average speed of >38 mph and for that time, I couldn't hold their wheels. A couple of other times I also fell back a bit, but I was able to get back on each time.
At one point about 60 miles in, there was a call to ease up b/c somebody had fallen far off the back. I said to the guy next to me - huh, if somebody was going to get dropped, i would have thought it would be me. He said, "You're doing fine. Most of us are probably 15 years younger than you." I asked, "How old are you?" "32". I said, "well actually, it's 30 years younger...".
I was at my limit for this ride, but I survived it and I take it as a victory.
Who konws what next year will bring.
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10-04-23, 11:01 AM
#63
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Considering I hadn't ridden seriously in almost ten years, I have improved considerably in the last few months, though at 58, the weight is not coming off as easily as it used to.
10-05-23, 09:14 AM
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Not that anyone will care, but here's an update and a non-humble brag. Saturday, I decided to give that fastest group a try, as I'm in pretty good shape at the moment and I don't know when injury or aging is going to take me down a big notch.
It was a group of about 14, ....
It was a group of about 14, ....
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