Technical questions for the retro grouches on here
04-07-24, 02:44 AM
#51
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My first bike with a disk brake was a Schwinn Stingray, which was made before many people on this forum were born. But that didn’t mean it was good. I don’t mind seeing innovation creating solutions to problems, but lots of innovations are solutions to problems which don’t really exist. The science of marketing is convincing people to buy things they don’t really need and can’t really afford.
Rim brakes are popular with retro-grouches because they are simple, effective, lightweight, easy to maintain and adjust, don’t require bleeding, and the pads are very long lasting. They are inexpensive, easy to install and set up, and, depending on the levers you use, you can precisely adjust the modulation.
I have a couple of bikes with hydraulic disk brakes. I like how the brakes work, great stopping power and modulation, great in the rain, and they look cool (an important point to some people). However, installing and bleeding is a messy and often annoying job, and for bike newbs who aren’t handy with a wrench, and don’t have a bleeding kit, they are much harder to maintain than a mechanical rim brake system. Mechanical disk brakes aren’t much different than rim brakes when it comes to maintenance, but I don’t much like the “feel” of mechanical disk brakes.
Most people won’t ride a particular bike anywhere near as long as it takes rim brakes to wear out a rim. I’ve got a road bike which is running old-school (thin) Mavic Helium wheels, I’ve put more than 100k on this bike, and haven’t worn down the rims yet.
Rim brakes are popular with retro-grouches because they are simple, effective, lightweight, easy to maintain and adjust, don’t require bleeding, and the pads are very long lasting. They are inexpensive, easy to install and set up, and, depending on the levers you use, you can precisely adjust the modulation.
I have a couple of bikes with hydraulic disk brakes. I like how the brakes work, great stopping power and modulation, great in the rain, and they look cool (an important point to some people). However, installing and bleeding is a messy and often annoying job, and for bike newbs who aren’t handy with a wrench, and don’t have a bleeding kit, they are much harder to maintain than a mechanical rim brake system. Mechanical disk brakes aren’t much different than rim brakes when it comes to maintenance, but I don’t much like the “feel” of mechanical disk brakes.
Most people won’t ride a particular bike anywhere near as long as it takes rim brakes to wear out a rim. I’ve got a road bike which is running old-school (thin) Mavic Helium wheels, I’ve put more than 100k on this bike, and haven’t worn down the rims yet.
04-07-24, 02:47 AM
#52
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Agreed we can give the examples of shimano cable eating shifters and with dura ace and ultegra bonded cranks which previous models were forged. A friend of mine said "Old tech that works is good tech"
04-07-24, 02:49 AM
#53
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04-07-24, 04:07 AM
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04-07-24, 04:09 AM
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SRAM makes (made) a hydraulic rim brake.
04-07-24, 04:53 AM
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04-07-24, 08:48 AM
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As an occasional retrogrouch, I will move beyond the disc brake discussion, and say Technically that I cannot foresee:
1a. Using 13 cogs on a cassette,
1b. Neither a 10 cog nor one with 52 teeth.
2. I like tubes on my road bikes.
3. I prefer external cable routing
4. Custom, handmade frames are priceless
5. 40+mm road tires are for sissies (and maybe some self supported tourers).
6. If you can clear your handlebars, your mind will follow
I ride vintage & modern, downtube shifting/Ergo10/Di2, CF/Ti/Steel frames, tubular/clincher - just make the frame 60cm please, and the weather pleasant.
1959 or 2020 - or anything in between, doesn’t really matter to me, just give it nice tires and wheels.
1a. Using 13 cogs on a cassette,
1b. Neither a 10 cog nor one with 52 teeth.
2. I like tubes on my road bikes.
3. I prefer external cable routing
4. Custom, handmade frames are priceless
5. 40+mm road tires are for sissies (and maybe some self supported tourers).
6. If you can clear your handlebars, your mind will follow
I ride vintage & modern, downtube shifting/Ergo10/Di2, CF/Ti/Steel frames, tubular/clincher - just make the frame 60cm please, and the weather pleasant.
1959 or 2020 - or anything in between, doesn’t really matter to me, just give it nice tires and wheels.
Custom handmade and internal cable routing. 1985
13 speed cassette with a 10 tooth cog (because I didn’t want the 9) and greater than 40mm tires. No tubes.
10 tooth and 52 tooth in the same place!!
What’s a tube?
04-07-24, 10:34 AM
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04-07-24, 11:17 AM
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I hope we can use this thread to query the retro grouch community on border issues pertaining to equipment, cycling performance, expectations, etc.
So here is my question/point of discussion:
If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?
I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? I’m sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
So here is my question/point of discussion:
If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?
I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? I’m sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
04-07-24, 11:23 AM
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That is not a rim brake, and it actually was made for a very good reason. With the rotor mounted on the rim, Erik was able to make a very lightweight wheel, since the "spokes" did not have to carry the load of braking. The majority of force went directly to the rim/tires, not the spokes. The lowered the unsprung weight, and lowered the gyroscopic action that works against turning inputs, making the bike much more "flickable."
04-07-24, 11:35 AM
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Wow, how novel, a discussion on rim vs disc brakes. Just curious, any of you guys hear about soaking your chains in wax as a form of chain lube? 
04-07-24, 11:42 AM
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04-07-24, 12:33 PM
#65
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@rosefarts = nice bikes, but Richey and Canfield go where I (almost) never ride. Spectrum, if you frequent it, qualifies as occasionally retrogrouchy. 
Versatility to explore one's chosen territory is good. I have access to this beast that my son has moved on from, but had yet to remove from our garage. 3x10 moderates the cassette.
Versatility to explore one's chosen territory is good. I have access to this beast that my son has moved on from, but had yet to remove from our garage. 3x10 moderates the cassette.
Last edited by Wildwood; 04-07-24 at 12:37 PM.
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04-07-24, 12:39 PM
#66
Sr Member on Sr bikes
Brakes are about stopping the bike. If/When you lock up the wheel, all your stopping ability comes down to a matter of how much of your tire is in contact with the ground. The one or two square inches (if that much) of tire rubber don’t care what made the wheel/tire stop rotating. So, if your “whatever” brakes are properly adjusted, and can lock up the wheel, how is one system better than the other? That being said, I will agree that there are certain conditions where disc brakes would be more functional than rim brakes…like descending mountains in the rain, for example. But otherwise, stopping is stopping.
Dan
Dan
04-07-24, 02:26 PM
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04-07-24, 02:50 PM
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I’m in the camp that says they’re a solution in search of a problem. I’d put my Dura Ace 7700s with compressionless housing and Swiss Stop pads against any disc brake.
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04-07-24, 02:55 PM
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I hope we can use this thread to query the retro grouch community on border issues pertaining to equipment, cycling performance, expectations, etc.
So here is my question/point of discussion:
If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?
I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? I’m sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
So here is my question/point of discussion:
If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?
I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? I’m sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
04-07-24, 03:04 PM
#71
Junior Member
That works in theory, but this thread is directed at "retro grouches" and whenever I say I like "insert old thing here" I am called a retro grouch and stopping "progress".
It's easier to accept the somewhat derogatory name and roll with the punches. This happens in most domains where tech and products have changed rapidly.
It's easier to accept the somewhat derogatory name and roll with the punches. This happens in most domains where tech and products have changed rapidly.
04-07-24, 04:10 PM
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And, of course, you can be a grouch without being retro.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
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04-07-24, 04:59 PM
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Yet from 1983 until 2004/2006 when the disc brakes went mandatory on the mountain bikes, none really bothered about disc brakes on mountain bikes. XTR , TRP Vbrakes, and Avid Extreme Arch were the most performing Vbrakes ever made alongwith the XT 780 T Vbrakes. There was a time when you could order a MTB with v brake mounts and disc brake mounts, after 2006 it was not more possible.
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04-07-24, 05:13 PM
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Yup ... mountain bikes went way deeper into development than road bikes .... They started out as old cruisers, basically followed road bike design, and suddenly got popular in a big way, so companies had to compete for customers ... and the R&D departments got busy. Meanwhile, the "gold standard" for road bikes was whatever had been popular a decade earlier ....
Interesting ... I was listening to the rambling reporters during the Paris-Roubais Femmes (I think) broadcast, and they mentioned some brand which had an onboard air system to inflate and deflate the tires to adjust to the cobbles and tarmac.
I haven't googled it but ....
Interesting ... I was listening to the rambling reporters during the Paris-Roubais Femmes (I think) broadcast, and they mentioned some brand which had an onboard air system to inflate and deflate the tires to adjust to the cobbles and tarmac.
I haven't googled it but ....
04-07-24, 05:22 PM
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