noglider 

How about: can the workers afford to buy the products they are making?

shafter

Very cool!

52telecaster

You have a point. If you part your hair right no one will notice. Do you tell your views on compensation to your food servers? I wouldn't if I were you.

fietsbob

enter investing money in apprenticeships..

(or cutting taxes for the executives, that already receive a disproportionate share)

PDKL45

Taiwan is not in SE Asia as someone posted above, it's part of East Asia along with Japan, the Koreas and mainland China. It is a developed nation with the same infrastructure and amenities that many developed countries have. As someone accurately posted above, it is a wealthier Asian nation, being one of the original Asian Tigers (Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of the PRC rather than being a soverign nation state like Singapore).

I have friends there who live comfortably in Taiwan. The lifestyle is different to other places, but things are relative. Even if their salary may seem low in comparison, that does not always tell the true story. I live in Korea and earn quite a bit less than people I know back home, but I have more savings and a much more comfortable lifestyle than some of them due to lower costs for the same things.

I would be more worried about the welfare of robots if you're riding a Giant. They are the biggest bike maker around and I would say that a lot of their employees tend to machines these days rather than toiling away themselves.

VNA

My understanding of the bicycle business has a very small profit margin.
The internet does not help much either.

FrenchFit 

I think the more difficult question to wrestle with is who might be building bikes, and at what wage, if imports from Asia, Mexico, etc., were slapped with a hefty import tariff. Seems like I heard a lot about this in 2016 ...

"It's all coming back folks. it's all coming back."

coominya

And a good thing too. Robots get it right 99.9999% of the time. Considering the thinness of the aluminum in my bikes I'm glad a robot is welding them

Machka 

They were marking the entrance to a small rest area, and may have been blocking access to larger vehicles.

CliffordK

Why not buy one of the USA made bicycle brands.

Welding or brazing is a skilled labor, and I presume would get reasonable wages. Not necessarily high, but reasonable.

Do small 1-man operations fare better?

PDKL45

Here's an article about a factory visit with quite a few pics of Giant workers. Having worked part time in places like that as a student, it looks like they have the same conditions as production line workers in other developed nations.

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-to...chung-factory/

StanSeven

Mod note: Good discussion, all. But please avoid letting the thread drift towards political issues. This is general cycling and not politics and religion.

Thanks

Stan

gringomojado

yes11

Wildwood 

Walmart mentality.
Yes, all full time jobs should pay a livable (if modest) wage.

The Quiet One

I build, or rather design, these. I can't afford one.


https://oshkoshdefense.com/jltv/

Retro Grouch 

That's what I think too. Anybody who can hold a job and who works 40 hours per week ought to be able to make a living.

Hokiedad4

In order to avoid making this a political discussion, I won't say, "No, they shouldn't." Anyone who can offer an employer added value ought to be able to compete for wages. Competition for skills is what drives wages. Not just showing up 40 hours a week.

With respect to bicycle manufacturing, as wages rise, automation becomes more affordable and inevitable. As automation increases, there's less incentive to manufacture in places where labor is cheap. The margins will always be about the same, since they're based on supply and demand.

Machka 

Has anyone else here been to Taiwan?

Caliper

The question didn't mention full time jobs, nor was my answer about them. I think the problem is that some peoples definition of a modest life is a bit extravagant (often seems to include new cars, smart phones, and kids) Some things in life need more than an entry level job. Look, I've been there, done that. Lived on a minimum wage, entry level job. Basically anyone with a pulse would be hired and could keep it if they showed up and worked. It's not glamorous, it takes watching your expenses and careful budgeting but it's totally do-able. So, no, I have little sympathy when people start whining that they "deserve" more money for menial work that requires little training. Want more money? Go get some training or education. That's life. I'm sure there are places of vocational training or higher education in Taiwan?

Machka 

What does any of this have to do with bicycle manufacturing in Taiwan?

Caliper

That worrying about the living standards of the factory workers really isn't the big issue many make it to be. Even if they can't afford to buy the bikes they make or live to whatever standard we in the US think that they should be while assembling a bike, the fact is that they have options. If they are unhappy with their income at the bike factory, they can seek other jobs in Taiwan, they can get training in a more skilled profession that will bring with it higher wages, etc. As long as we aren't alleging that the workers are being forced to work against their will, I'll let them manage their own lives.

Retro Grouch 

1. It'a too late for that.
2. Nice shot before the lock.

wphamilton

Comparing life-styles makes it easier to be unconcerned about manufacturing jobs elsewhere. I'll stick with the numbers I posted earlier, although those are just averages. Does anyone know the actual wages of those jobs, and the cost of living in those specific areas?

Caliper

Since most countries today have some sort of socialism, what "benefits" does the government provide? Taiwan having a $17k/year average salary but only 18% lower cost of living seems a bit at odds with the modern industrialized society that others have mentioned unless the government is playing some games.

BTW, $17k/year is more than my g/f and I lived on through college (for everything except tuition and books) so even in the US it's possible.

wphamilton

Sure it's possible to live, otherwise they'd all be dead and no workers. Is it a decent wage in Taiwan, do the factory workers bring in the average, more, less? I lived on much less than that at one time, but Machka has a point that what I survived on in college, or what you did, doesn't have much to do with wages today in Taiwan.