Lightweight e-bike hybrid with Throttle
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Lightweight e-bike hybrid with Throttle
Budget: ~$2K (but will go to $3K if it's perfect).
Use: Mainly recreational and tooling around (motsly paved, maybe some light gravel), but other uses like shopping/commute is possible
Requirments (in rough order of importance)
1. Ideal Geometry/looks, like a hybrid, think Trek DS, and not an e-bike
Any and all advice appreciated, including that what I'm asking may not exist, and what I have to compromise on.
Use: Mainly recreational and tooling around (motsly paved, maybe some light gravel), but other uses like shopping/commute is possible
Requirments (in rough order of importance)
1. Ideal Geometry/looks, like a hybrid, think Trek DS, and not an e-bike
- Throttle (Class II/III)
- 50lbs max (ideally ~40lbs)
- 50+ mile range
- Torque Sensor
- Hydraulic brakes
- Reliable
- Own Display (i.e. don't need my phone)
- Easy to get serviced at local bike shop
Any and all advice appreciated, including that what I'm asking may not exist, and what I have to compromise on.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,039
Bikes: addict, aethos, creo, vanmoof, sirrus, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1279 Post(s)
Liked 1,393 Times
in
711 Posts
in terms of a literal match to you list, something like the zen saral - 2.2k, 55lb, class iii, 500w, 640wh, throttle, torque sensor, no idea if the brakes are any good, front suspension, looks ok.
priority current - 3.2k, 53lb, class iii, 500w, 500wh (good for more than 50 miles assuming no crazy hills or winds or >25mph speeds), torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, fenders, etc. integrated battery, looks OK but not great IMO. NO THROTTLE.
at the other end of the spectrum - you can pick up a vado SL on sale for $3k which is everything you list except the throttle, but a significantly lower power level, much more fun to ride :
specialized turbo vado sl 4.0 - $3k, 35lb, class iii, 320w, 320wh (50 miles totally doable if you keep the speeds in the 18-22mph range), torque sensing mid drive, hydraulic disk brakes, integrated battery, etc.
priority current - 3.2k, 53lb, class iii, 500w, 500wh (good for more than 50 miles assuming no crazy hills or winds or >25mph speeds), torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, fenders, etc. integrated battery, looks OK but not great IMO. NO THROTTLE.
at the other end of the spectrum - you can pick up a vado SL on sale for $3k which is everything you list except the throttle, but a significantly lower power level, much more fun to ride :
specialized turbo vado sl 4.0 - $3k, 35lb, class iii, 320w, 320wh (50 miles totally doable if you keep the speeds in the 18-22mph range), torque sensing mid drive, hydraulic disk brakes, integrated battery, etc.
#3
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 645
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
264 Posts
Seems one can use a throttle on front or rear wheel drive, eliminating all mid-drives.
I mentioned a few times on our page that a Swytch front-drive conversion makes a lot of sense.
Mounted mine on a rear rack and carry a spare battery, starting with an 18 pound road bike.
Turns it into around a 28-pounder, capable of sixty miles with me pedaling the entire time.
No pedal sensor installed and only use a throttle. Nice balance carrying the batteries aft.
Swytch takes orders on a new system for a longer-range and heftier battery for '24.
Anyway, price complete runs about $500 to $800, depending how far you option it.
I mentioned a few times on our page that a Swytch front-drive conversion makes a lot of sense.
Mounted mine on a rear rack and carry a spare battery, starting with an 18 pound road bike.
Turns it into around a 28-pounder, capable of sixty miles with me pedaling the entire time.
No pedal sensor installed and only use a throttle. Nice balance carrying the batteries aft.
Swytch takes orders on a new system for a longer-range and heftier battery for '24.
Anyway, price complete runs about $500 to $800, depending how far you option it.
Likes For mschwett:
#6
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
in terms of a literal match to you list, something like the zen saral - 2.2k, 55lb, class iii, 500w, 640wh, throttle, torque sensor, no idea if the brakes are any good, front suspension, looks ok.
priority current - 3.2k, 53lb, class iii, 500w, 500wh (good for more than 50 miles assuming no crazy hills or winds or >25mph speeds), torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, fenders, etc. integrated battery, looks OK but not great IMO. NO THROTTLE.
at the other end of the spectrum - you can pick up a vado SL on sale for $3k which is everything you list except the throttle, but a significantly lower power level, much more fun to ride :
specialized turbo vado sl 4.0 - $3k, 35lb, class iii, 320w, 320wh (50 miles totally doable if you keep the speeds in the 18-22mph range), torque sensing mid drive, hydraulic disk brakes, integrated battery, etc.
priority current - 3.2k, 53lb, class iii, 500w, 500wh (good for more than 50 miles assuming no crazy hills or winds or >25mph speeds), torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, fenders, etc. integrated battery, looks OK but not great IMO. NO THROTTLE.
at the other end of the spectrum - you can pick up a vado SL on sale for $3k which is everything you list except the throttle, but a significantly lower power level, much more fun to ride :
specialized turbo vado sl 4.0 - $3k, 35lb, class iii, 320w, 320wh (50 miles totally doable if you keep the speeds in the 18-22mph range), torque sensing mid drive, hydraulic disk brakes, integrated battery, etc.
I have to say I just really liked the throttle on the times I've used an ebike, not for continuous, but just the occasional use.
Likes For shed:
#7
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,538
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4359 Post(s)
Liked 4,000 Times
in
2,669 Posts
Yeah go with the Vado SL, I own one and it is a fantastic bike and thanks to it being a bike and not an e-moped I can ride it anywhere that bikes are allowed. I am currently building it out to make it perfect for me as it was the owner of the shop I previously worked at's before he passed away and I want to keep the bike going but if I am riding it I need to do a few things for me that he would probably approve on some and maybe not all the way on others until he rode and would say damn I like it.
The great thing as well with the Specialized is your last request of being able to go into a bike shop to get it worked on. Most shops will see a Aventonton or similar online hub drive thing and say no we don't work on that but Specialized you are more likely to get help and will definitely get help at a Specialized dealer.
Aventonton and similar don't really have any brick and mortar presence and even if they did probably a lot of shops wouldn't want to service them that sold them if they didn't have to. I know trying to get info about their own bikes from them was like pulling teeth that were not going to come out without nasty destructive methods that would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. We need a part for a customers fork and they could only come back with the same information I had already told them and I spoke with CS folks and the "engineers" and all of them were stumped on their own bike and could only read the copy from their website. They wouldn't even credit the customer for the part that would have been warranty.
Really the only money you save is purely looking at only initial costs and no other costs and that is never a great way to go. Always look at it long term, Specialized I know will be in business for a long time and they have excellent support for a while we had customers with old e-bikes the original ones and I think nearly all of them got new bikes at a heavy discount from Specialized because they knew their first gen stuff (which is long gone and no longer anything close to what they are building now) was not up to par long term and plus a lifetime warranty on their frames really does pay off if you have an issue which I have had (not with an e-bike though).
The great thing as well with the Specialized is your last request of being able to go into a bike shop to get it worked on. Most shops will see a Aventonton or similar online hub drive thing and say no we don't work on that but Specialized you are more likely to get help and will definitely get help at a Specialized dealer.
Aventonton and similar don't really have any brick and mortar presence and even if they did probably a lot of shops wouldn't want to service them that sold them if they didn't have to. I know trying to get info about their own bikes from them was like pulling teeth that were not going to come out without nasty destructive methods that would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. We need a part for a customers fork and they could only come back with the same information I had already told them and I spoke with CS folks and the "engineers" and all of them were stumped on their own bike and could only read the copy from their website. They wouldn't even credit the customer for the part that would have been warranty.
Really the only money you save is purely looking at only initial costs and no other costs and that is never a great way to go. Always look at it long term, Specialized I know will be in business for a long time and they have excellent support for a while we had customers with old e-bikes the original ones and I think nearly all of them got new bikes at a heavy discount from Specialized because they knew their first gen stuff (which is long gone and no longer anything close to what they are building now) was not up to par long term and plus a lifetime warranty on their frames really does pay off if you have an issue which I have had (not with an e-bike though).
#8
Junior Member
I ride a 3+ year old Specialized Creo that is perfect except for the price
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/c/...BoC2MwQAvD_BwE
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/c/...BoC2MwQAvD_BwE
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,994
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2496 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times
in
523 Posts
It works just fine. It is not 'another' mechanism in the bottom bracket. The mechanism in the bottom bracket is all the mechanism that is needed. No mechanism at all in the wheels means they can be removed and re-installed as easily as on a regular bike. It also keeps the weight of everything central and low down which is good for handling (feel).
#10
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 645
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
264 Posts
It works just fine. It is not 'another' mechanism in the bottom bracket. The mechanism in the bottom bracket is all the mechanism that is needed. No mechanism at all in the wheels means they can be removed and re-installed as easily as on a regular bike. It also keeps the weight of everything central and low down which is good for handling (feel).
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,994
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2496 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times
in
523 Posts
Budget: ~$2K (but will go to $3K if it's perfect).
Use: Mainly recreational and tooling around (motsly paved, maybe some light gravel), but other uses like shopping/commute is possible
Requirments (in rough order of importance)
1. Ideal Geometry/looks, like a hybrid, think Trek DS, and not an e-bike
Any and all advice appreciated, including that what I'm asking may not exist, and what I have to compromise on.
Use: Mainly recreational and tooling around (motsly paved, maybe some light gravel), but other uses like shopping/commute is possible
Requirments (in rough order of importance)
1. Ideal Geometry/looks, like a hybrid, think Trek DS, and not an e-bike
- Throttle (Class II/III)
- 50lbs max (ideally ~40lbs)
- 50+ mile range
- Torque Sensor
- Hydraulic brakes
- Reliable
- Own Display (i.e. don't need my phone)
- Easy to get serviced at local bike shop
Any and all advice appreciated, including that what I'm asking may not exist, and what I have to compromise on.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,039
Bikes: addict, aethos, creo, vanmoof, sirrus, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1279 Post(s)
Liked 1,393 Times
in
711 Posts
basically, the crank arm is connected to an axle, which is connected to the gearing mechanism of the motor, which has a freewheel or clutch mechanism. if you turn the crank forward, the chainring turns forward. if the motor is on, it turns the chainring forward. if you turn the crank backwards, the chainring is not driven backwards.
you can't really tell in the photo, but the crankarm is not connected directly to the chainring.
https://roadbikeaction.com/wp-conten...eo-sl-1937.jpg
__________________
Likes For mschwett:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,266
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 824 Times
in
623 Posts
One of my LBS's sells Aventon, but as you say, they're behemoths. You can locate a bike with the characteristics you've specified (I've seen YouTube videos of some). Just keep looking. The most difficult aspect if you want a throttle is "40 pound". You can DIY one easily.
#14
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,547
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3674 Post(s)
Liked 5,441 Times
in
2,764 Posts
Once the regulatory nonsense has been resolved, likely all ebikes will have the option of throttles. If you find one you like but w/o a throttle, investigate a conversion kit for that specific bike.
#15
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Thank you for all your help. I get the Unicorn aspect of my ask. I guess my head was at the Aventon Soltera II has most of what I want, and I'd happily pay an extra grand for more range and/or specs and/or lightness, but that doesn't seem to exist and/or is not possible.
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
I definitely looked at reviews/specs of the Specialized Vada and it was kinda everything apart from the throttle, and I've generally been a trek/specialized owner in the road and hybrid bikes I've owed and like both brands, sp perhaps will test at my LBS.
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
I definitely looked at reviews/specs of the Specialized Vada and it was kinda everything apart from the throttle, and I've generally been a trek/specialized owner in the road and hybrid bikes I've owed and like both brands, sp perhaps will test at my LBS.
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
Last edited by shed; 12-10-23 at 10:51 AM.
#16
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,547
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3674 Post(s)
Liked 5,441 Times
in
2,764 Posts
The lack of throttle is an artificial distinction and purely regulatory. Many jurisdictions permit certain ebikes to be used as if they were non-motorized. I think as numbers and lobbying power grow, the utility of a throttle will prevail. As for weight, unless you have to carry the bike up stairs or load it on top of a car, the weight is pretty much irrelevant.
#17
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lee County, IA
Posts: 61
Bikes: Trek 5600 Carbon road bike, Giant Anyroad Comax gravel bike, Cruzbike QX100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times
in
13 Posts
Throttle is really nice on recumbent bike in assisting takeoff. On upright bike, I don't miss the throttle.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,266
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 824 Times
in
623 Posts
Thank you for all your help. I get the Unicorn aspect of my ask. I guess my head was at the Aventon Soltera II has most of what I want, and I'd happily pay an extra grand for more range and/or specs and/or lightness, but that doesn't seem to exist and/or is not possible.
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
I definitely looked at reviews/specs of the Specialized Vada and it was kinda everything apart from the throttle, and I've generally been a trek/specialized owner in the road and hybrid bikes I've owed and like both brands, sp perhaps will test at my LBS.
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
I definitely looked at reviews/specs of the Specialized Vada and it was kinda everything apart from the throttle, and I've generally been a trek/specialized owner in the road and hybrid bikes I've owed and like both brands, sp perhaps will test at my LBS.
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
#20
Full Member
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: California's capital
Posts: 467
Bikes: Litespeed Firenze, Spot Acme, Specialzed S Works Pro Race, Davidson Stiletto, Colnago Superissimo
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked 302 Times
in
173 Posts
not sure what you're getting at here. of course you can coast or freewheel on a mid-drive ebike. you can pedal backwards or not at all. the difference between this and a normal bike is that when you pedal backwards, the chainring actually doesn't go backwards. the crank arms and pedals do, but the chainring stays still.
basically, the crank arm is connected to an axle, which is connected to the gearing mechanism of the motor, which has a freewheel or clutch mechanism. if you turn the crank forward, the chainring turns forward. if the motor is on, it turns the chainring forward. if you turn the crank backwards, the chainring is not driven backwards.
you can't really tell in the photo, but the crankarm is not connected directly to the chainring.
https://roadbikeaction.com/wp-conten...eo-sl-1937.jpg
basically, the crank arm is connected to an axle, which is connected to the gearing mechanism of the motor, which has a freewheel or clutch mechanism. if you turn the crank forward, the chainring turns forward. if the motor is on, it turns the chainring forward. if you turn the crank backwards, the chainring is not driven backwards.
you can't really tell in the photo, but the crankarm is not connected directly to the chainring.
https://roadbikeaction.com/wp-conten...eo-sl-1937.jpg
#21
Commuter
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: SE Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 541
Bikes: Main Bikes: 2023 Trek Domane AL3, 2022 Aventon Level.2 eBike, 1972 Schwinn Varsity, 2024 Priority Apollo 11
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
196 Posts
Thank you for all your help. I get the Unicorn aspect of my ask. I guess my head was at the Aventon Soltera II has most of what I want, and I'd happily pay an extra grand for more range and/or specs and/or lightness, but that doesn't seem to exist and/or is not possible.
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
Weight is where I will compromise the most say 50lb max (heck it's not like I'm not carrying way more extra weight on my body than an extra 10lb)
I definitely looked at reviews/specs of the Specialized Vada and it was kinda everything apart from the throttle, and I've generally been a trek/specialized owner in the road and hybrid bikes I've owed and like both brands, sp perhaps will test at my LBS.
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
On the throttle front, as someone who's done a lot of regular biking, I definitely see why it could be viewed dimly, but I rented one with a throttle a few weeks ago, and I loved it just on getting up to speed quick after a stop and the last 5 mins of a ride when I was tired.
Out of interest, what's the deal with not having throttles on ebikes; is it technological? Regulatory (I'm in US, Cali fwiw)? Tradition? Bike manufacturers fearing it will reduce their ability to state a good range?
*********
Anyway, my advice after reading all this is to do a little more soul-searching and either:
A) Go with the Solterra, as it's light(ish) and won't be an issue to pedal home if you run it down, or
B) Get the Aventon Level.2. It'll add another ~20 lbs. but you'll have the power and throttle that you wanted. It's heavier than the Solterra, but not so heavy that it's not pedalable. The tires are efficient. When I ride mine un-powered, I find myself going 13 mph on level ground; about the same as my regular hybrid bike, (Trek Verve 3) but it just takes longer to get up to speed on account of weighing 30 lbs. more. Up hills, it can be tough. I've found Aventon's 60 mile range spec to be accurate if I use power sparingly. (only against headwinds and when going uphill. Since it has a torque sensor that reacts quickly, I don't find myself EVER using the throttle. Components are good, fit & finish are good.
I did an in-depth review in this thread and the embedded videos:
https://ebikesforum.com/threads/aven...w-thread.3764/
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,266
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 824 Times
in
623 Posts
FYI, Class 1 & 2 ebikes are permitted on bike paths in "the OC" (Orange County, CA) unless expressly prohibited (which they are on a few paths that I frequent -- on MTB's), but are prohibited from all county and state parks. The fine for state parks is $385 AFAIK.
#23
Ride more, eat less
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philla PA, Hoboken NJ, Brooklyn NY
Posts: 2,075
Bikes: Too many but never enough.
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked 737 Times
in
453 Posts
$2K budget, 50lb. max, 50 mi. range, likely not going to be a light bike for the budget.
Just the battery alone is going to be heavy even with smaller output motor.
I feel that you can do a model comparison with Ride1Up.
https://ride1up.com/compare-models/
Just the battery alone is going to be heavy even with smaller output motor.
I feel that you can do a model comparison with Ride1Up.
https://ride1up.com/compare-models/