Sy Reene

x = ?

_ForceD_

Finding X

IamNed

In my group, 3 to 4 miles per hour.

Jakedatc

did our monday shop ride route 2mph slower today... in summer probably woulda been 1-1.5 slower

datlas 

X is a variable variable. Depends on terrain, wind, number of riders, etc.

smarkinson

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...built-in-power

RollCNY

Correct.

DXchulo

There's really no good answer to that. There are estimates as to how much energy drafting can save you, but how much energy you're putting out depends on who's hammering at the front. Chances are you don't have a whole lot of control over that. In the right group you can cruise along at a high speed and it feels like you're not working at all. In other groups it can feel like a lot of work to not go much faster than you would be going solo.

caloso

On my standard Saturday ride, 5-6mph. Depending on the wind.

FBinNY 

The paceline X factor probably includes more than the basic benefits of wind breaking. (which should never be confused with breaking wind)

IME some riders are greyhounds, by which I mean that they tend to sustain higher speeds if they're chasing a rabbit. For them the rabbit doesn't have to break wind, just be out there to motivate them and have them dig a bit deeper to keep up the chase.

So to all the factors of wind speed and direction, terrain and bike/rider aerodynamics we can add the non-quantifiable emotional/motivational factors, which for some riders can be very significant.

Dean V

If it is a large group of riders faster than you on a flat ride with you just sitting in, X could be quite a bit.
Otherwise it will be less.

HTupolev

3 or 4 parsecs.

hsuehhwa

With a very strong head wind


X for a very lean climber could a lot greater than X for a very strong and muscular sprinter.

Sy Reene

thanks all.. I guess I was just trying to equate (of course it would have to be approximate given wind variances etc.) if riding a same course at the same effort (average watts I guess) how much speed is typically picked up (average over the course) in a paceline vs. if I had gone out solo? Another way to put it.. If I typically go out and ride a 50mile course at a pace equal to say 18mph (on flats), and want to sign up for a club ride that's pacelining, and am choosing a ride rated in a similar way (eg. B18, A20, or whatnot), what would you choose to come close?

Bikeracer123

Saturday group ride is about 10 mph faster, I usually average 20-22 solo. The ride averages 28-30+ mph

DXchulo

Assuming you have decent group riding skills, I say just try to hang on to the fastest group for as long as you can. That will be the most fun.

wphamilton

I've seen rough estimates of 30% difference of your power, in the first draft position, so cube root of 1.3 or 1.09 times the velocity? 9% greater speed in other words.

RChung

As a rough rule of thumb, in the finale of a *flat* stage of one of the grand tours, a motivated peloton can claw back 8-10 seconds/km from a solo escapee. That is, if you're 6km from the end of the stage and you have more than a 1 minute lead you're pretty safe. If you have less than a 45 second lead you're pretty much dead meat.

snidely

x = your mental fortitude.

caloso

If you can average 18mph by yourself, you should be able to ride with a group that averages 24mph. If you are new to group riding, I would recommend sitting towards the back and staying out of the rotation until you get comfortable in the pack.

FBinNY 

One way to look at this calls for some simple math (in the age of the internet).

Consider that the power requirements are roughly proportional to the cube of wind speed. For our purposes, 40% is a decent approximation of the power saved in a peloton vs. riding solo.

So take the solo wind speed and cube it to get a power needed value. Divide it by .6 to get the power value needed within the peloton, then take the cube root to get the peloton speed.

If you run this based in 17mph solo speed, you'll get about 21mph peloton speed.

But consider that to be nothing more than a decent estimate. First of all there's more than wind drag involved, and the math changes considerably when climbing where wind is a much smaller component of resistance. Secondly, the wind drag reduction within a peloton varies greatly depending on your size and position within the peloton and the wind speed and angel.

Lastly and possibly most important the benefit of riding within a peloton depends on rider skill. Riders who are not skilled at matching speed, and end up creating and closing small gaps expend more energy in that effort offsetting the wind drag savings.

So, use the math to see if you're in the ballpark, then it's a question of getting the experience and improving your own skills.

Sy Reene

Thanks everyone.. I think I'll start conservative and only assume a benefit of ~2mph for now, and adjust if needed when I pick the next ride. Seems to me that hills are a question. I'm not very strong on hills so while guys on the paceline might only drop 2-3mph for a given gradient, I might drop more than this. Going down the hills.. not as big of a factor, as that becomes more an issue of what is dared.

FlashBazbo

Good answers. It depends. I like to chase fast Centuries -- 4:30 or faster. If there is a pack of 100 riders or so chasing the same thing, I know my chances are better (unless they seem to consider anything under 5:00 to be a thrill). I can remember one ride where the pack lasted 65 miles before breaking apart. For that 65 miles, we averaged 26.1 mph. Solo, I would likely have been around 20.

Same event, a couple years later, the fast group was very small. I would have been better off riding steady by myself. So now, if there's not a big, well organized group, I tend to treat it as a solo TT. Riding in the wrong group CAN be more trouble than it's worth.

JonnyV

X is always equal to X. Always.

Dan333SP