michaelm101

With new developments in battery tech, so many options are popping up.

I'm a serious, lifetime cyclist who's battling sports injuries, the effects of AGING and summer heat.

Getting a little boost here and there (without too much added weight) would do me good...

It's 2023. Is there anything worthy out there? I'm in SoCal USA.

Thanks, once again for saving me countless hours of researching!

Iride01 

You might get better answers for that in theElectric Bikes sub-forum. Consider that your typical bike really isn't made for the power that a motor can add to it. As well quite a few DIY'ed e-bikes seem to come up with odd issues that might get back to not being designed with the motor in mind. Whether it's a overwhelming number comparatively I can't say.

If you can handle the cost, I'd recommend you get a bike that is already made to be a e-bike.

roadcrankr

I put a Swytch front wheel conversion on one of my road bikes. It works great for my tired old body. haha
One can wait months for its arrival, but I think it's totally worth it. I use it a few times monthly.
Approx $700, while adding about ten pounds to my 18-pounder. (I carry a spare battery.)
You can't come close to that result without spending big bucks.
I achieve an average of 25 miles on each battery, but exert considerable pedaling effort.
And if I exhaust my batteries, I can still pedal home. Try that on a fifty-pound behemoth!

2old

I've built quite a few "e's", some for me, some for others, and a BBS02 mid-drive has been superb for about eight years of heavy off road riding, while neither needing maintenance nor ever having a problem (Lunacycle in LA as well as other vendors). Otherwise a small front hub system may suffice (contact ebikesca, the only place I can recommend).

Pop N Wood

Lots of worthy kits out there. My suggestion is don't overthink the process and listen to the people who actually have ebikes rather than people who openly dislike the idea.

Anything you put on your bike will add weight. The bulk of weight will be in the battery. The motors and controllers are all roughly the same weight. Keep in mind battery tech is still in the bronze age. Even the best batteries require a fair amount of weight to yield a usable range. That is why electric pickup trucks use batteries that weigh more than a Honda Civic.

Don't be scared off by weight on an ebike. Touring and backpacking bikes routinely exceed 50 pounds. So even with a depleted battery a heavy bike can be ridden. Keep in mind a rider gets plenty of warning before a battery runs out of juice. One can conserve range by slowing down and using less electric boost to get home

IMO DIY kits on older bikes are a much better option than "factory" bikes. The idea older frames weren't designed for the added power is bit of a fallacy. High power hub motors may require a torque arm to keep from rounding out fork drop outs. But other than that ebikes use the same components that bikes have been using for 100 years.

As for factory stuff, man, so many options. But way too many of those seem to be designed toward casual riders without any regards to weight.

Like 2old I put a mid drive on an 80's vintage Cannondale aluminum mountain bike. 3 years of zero, I mean zero, issues. I built one just for the experience. Shortly after I went through a couple of back to back surgeries. The ebike was a God send during those recoveries allowing me to ride without worry. Turn down the boost to push the recovery, but still have power to get home if I bonked or started hurting.

cb400bill

Thread moved from General to E-Bikes.

michaelm101

Thx! I'm assuming a kit is not recommended on a carbon-framed bike, or even a carbon-forked bike?

Pop N Wood

Not sure what to tell you there. Lots of opinions on carbon.

2old

The potential, but likely, problem with carbon frames and mid-drives is the bottom bracket is too thick for the motor assembly. Also, IMO a front hub motor on a carbon fork is a bad idea (although some do it) because the ramifications of failure could be catastrophic (and carbon being notch-sensitive is subject to failure). You're in socal where it's easy to locate a 90's or so steel hardtail; these are excellent for DIY IMO.

cat0020

Be specific about your expectations, budget and physical injuries, that may help narrow down in the suggestions you may receive.

Doc_Wui

30 year old Raleigh Mixte. Fitted with Tong Sheng TSDZ2 kit. $270. Custom 48V 26 cell battery that was made by a backlot builder, (m3) $150 for the components.

It hasn't folded up on me, so I guess the frame is strong enough for the 300-400 watts of this motor. A commercial battery might go $300-500 depending on size. Mine was pretty small, to keep the weight down to 5 pounds. Motor is 8-9 pounds. Not a real strong ebike, it's intended to take the edge off pedalling, With the motor off, the 26" tires seems to pedal better than my unpowered hybrid with 29 x1.95" tires.
.



Two Diamondback Wildwoods. One has a $200 500W geared motor in back, The other has a $450 750W bafanf BBS02 mid drive. Bith have 48V batteries that would cost about $400.

Polaris OBark

I just assembled one on a steel-framed bike earlier this week (see the Cyc Photon thread). Ironically, I might have given myself an injury trying to cram my (to me) massive 10 lb battery into my frame's triangle, in a bag. It looks good, but I think my shoulder is coming off. (Splitting wood and quality time with a McCloud didn't help either).

If you have $$$$, take a look at Trek's new Domane+ and Specialized's Turbo Creo. Both are "serious" road bikes and are quite stealthy. Other manufacturers have some offerings like that, too.

My wife has degenerative arthritis, and a couple of years ago got a Canondale/Bosch aluminum 105-level road e-Bike discounted at REI, for about $3700. It actually gave her a new lease on life, and she acquired a new non-motorized road bike as a consequence.

2old

Great news about her improvement, and it wasn't the first time I've heard good news about someone that tried an e-bike.

bikerwannabe

I decided to jump into the pool using a Swytch kit, because I love my Cannondale Road Warrior bike, but need some help in windy or hilly conditions. I expect I wil NOT use the pedal assist most of the time, so keeping total weight down is important. (The Swytch kit adds less than 8 lbs) People sometimes claim a 40 lb ebike isn't too heavy - but it is if you are a senior who will need to lift 2 of them on to your car bikerack. Let us know what you decide to do.

linberl

I had a 5lb kepler-style friction drive on my bike. Barely noticeable in weight but there when i needed it. If you're handy, check endless-sphere for info on the kepler fricton drive.

fooferdoggie 

me I dont want a bike without a good torque sensor I want my bike to feel like a bike. I dont like the weight issues that e bikes deal with it's hard to get around unless you want to spend big bucks. nice light weight bikes that perform well are way expensive. but I need to face it I would not get much use from one. I have my trek allant 8 mostly for commuting and such and our e tandem for most of my rides and long riding. a less powerful bike would only be good when I am feeling really good. like last Saturday I rode 63 miles and it felt great on a lighter bike it would have been better as I had the energy.

rgconner

Some misconceptions here, let me see if I can help you out.


I highly recommend, because I have one currently, the CYC Photon. A mid drive with a good torque sensor it is rated at 1000w continuous power. It has a highly customizable profile editor so you can set it up to assist as much or as little as you want.

Torque sensing is proportional, at least with this unit. You peddle harder, it matches your input. Feels very natural, especially at lower power levels. The CYC has 3, and I have mine set to 250w 500w and 750w for street, and 500, 1000, 1500 for "race". I really don't use race, I just set it up. I mostly use 1 in flats, 2 in hills, 3 if I am on a fast road. It tops out at around 25mph, I run out of gearing.


The whole unit costs around $1000 to $1100, depending on options. That does not include a battery.


I put it on my Black Mountain MCD frame, which is pretty stout. I am 250lbs Clyde, so it is a good thing. Originally had 11 speeds. I modified it 8. Keeps the chain line reasonable and with the assist, you really don't need the range. Max gearing is 11-42 to 38-42. Rarely use the 38-42, to be honest.


The battery is in that little pack under the seat. Yes, that really is a battery. And it is 52V 10Ah. For perspective, my morning ride was 13.03 mi

• 48:36
  
• 884 ft
  
• 16.1 mph
  

That consumed roughly 20% of the battery. So 10Ah is not a small battery in terms of distance. Carrying additional batteries is no big deal and swapping them out is not hard either. That battery could be mounted in any of the three points of the triangle, or on either of the bottle racks. To be fair, that would cost you those racks if you put them down there.


https://www.electrifybike.com/ is where I got both items, the battery is another $500 with the bag and charger is $52.


Bike weight is 46 lbs with the battery. Not bad for an E-bike. The MCD was chunky to start with, so adding 10lbs of motor and 5lbs for the battery and case... well, if you started with a 20lb bike you are at 35lbs.


Photos showing the bike, the motor, and battery, also modification to the 11 gear cassette. Note that if you go to the 9th gear you can get back. It will jump that gap.

bikerwannabe

Sweet setup!

Broctoon

I can also give the Bafang BBS02 a positive review.

We got one for my wife last year, to get her back onto a bike following her cancer treatments. The kit we got has a 750W motor and 48v battery. We got one of the most compact and affordable batteries offered by Bafang. It is still pretty bulky and heavy, however. It has a capacity of about 14 amp-hours.

The kit installed pretty easily on her 1990s era Schwinn mountain bike. It is not an installation task for a beginner bike mechanic, but doesn't require a lot of special skill. I'd call it an intermediate task.

All the parts are of decent quality, and it seems to be a pretty well engineered system. One exception is the rear-mounted battery carrying rack. Her small step-through frame does not have enough space for a battery in the typical frame-mounted position, so we ordered the rack as an add-on with the kit. As it came, it was weak and poorly built. I made a few custom modifications to bring it up to adequate strength. To anyone considering this system, I'd recommend skipping Bafang's rack and getting some other type, for about the same price.

She rides routes that are mostly flat with a few moderate hills, and contributes some small to moderate power from her legs. At an average speed of around 15 MPH (give or take a few), with this riding style, she has a range of nearly 30 miles. This is with a total bike + rider weight of around 200 lbs.

We paid around $1000 for the kit, including the rack, battery charger, and a special tool to make an easier job of installing the motor in the bottom bracket shell.

Pros:
- Decent quality
- Fairly straightforward installation, for an intermediate mechanic
- Controls are easy to use, with both throttle and pedal assist modes, and 9 selectable boost levels
- Seems a good value, compared to factory-built complete e-bikes at $2k+
- Range is respectable, and can reach top speed of ~25 MPH

Cons:
- Not as tidy as a factory bike, with exposed wire harnesses and sensors
- Rear battery carrying rack is inadequate without some custom mods

Worth considering:
- Mid drive allows use of original wheels, and gives smooth operation/control
- Requires drivetrain modification. You will replace the entire crank and bottom bracket with a special single chainring crank
-- I got rid of the front derailleur and shifter.
-- Rear freewheel cluster, derailleur, and shifter are unchanged.

Polaris OBark

That's absolutely remarkable. I just got a cyc photon and did a conversion, and the one thing that nearly makes me cry is how huge the battery is. It pretty much takes up the whole frame triangle (so I hid it in a frame bag). If I had seen your battery, I would have certainly opted for that instead.

2old

Broctoon, depending on the ride, you might consider a smaller battery. Today I used a 52V, 4ah battery which is good for about 15 miles; overall weight: 215 pounds (the battery in a seat bag protected by 3/4" foam weighs 3.6 pounds).

Chinghis

This is a great thread, thanks. That's a sweet Black Mountain, before and after!

rgconner

Wait till I get the Curtis Inglis Retrotec delivered... doing a Ebviolo internal gear hub and a curved downtube so I can mount the CYC motor inside the main triangle.

The Black Mountain is awesome, but the the frame is taking a beating with the torque. I am concerned about ruining it.

The Inglis Retrotec will be built from the ground up to take up to 2.5K watts of torque... even though the Enviolo is limited to 120Nm.

2old

rgc, that frame is steel and IMO should last for a long time. My BBS02 hardtail is in its seventh or eighth year of pretty severe off road activity with no problems, and a 1000w (actually 1500 since it had a 30 amp controller with 52V battery) errand bike functioned well for five years before I dismantled it and gave the kit to my daughter's fiance.

rgconner

Yes, but it has a head shake issue under full power. I am well into Clyde territory, so there is the concern there too.

Mike Varney was not thrilled about the conversion, as the torque levels were not factored into his build.