Finally, demand for quality standards
02-20-24, 07:28 AM
#126
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The numbers are raw data and say nothing. How they are interpreted is what matters. The death toll is becoming prohibitive, in the eyes of some accident analysts (i.e., those who do it for a living, in contrast to you and me, who go by gut reactions to the data).
02-20-24, 08:05 AM
#127
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E- bikes and batteries are not the issue ----- poorly made batteries are. Shoddy construction causes internal shorts and, yes, fires. Likewise, poor battery/charger combinations which don't properly manage charge rates and/or prevent over charging.
One needs a very short memory to forget the fires caused by crappy hoverboards a few years ago.
As you point out, besides the direct victims of battery fires, the worst victims of (crappy) battery fires will ultimately be E-bike owners, banned from bringing bikes indoors.
The way to prevent fire hysteria is to reduce fires in the first place. This is a clear example of poor apples spoiling the barrel and should be managed accordingly.
If we allow the hysterical "no regulation" folks to prevent intelligent regulation, we'll end up with worse regulation later. And don't cry that you weren't warned.
Last edited by FBinNY; 02-20-24 at 08:10 AM.
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02-20-24, 10:54 AM
#128
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Question assumptions, look at facts, take speculation with a grain of salt, and make decisions for yourself.
My warning is fires are not a major problem, certainly not nationally, but more importantly if we keep making ebikes out to be evil we run the risk of getting things banned.
02-20-24, 11:03 AM
#129
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You backhandedly make the best case for E-bike fans to support battery certification requirements ideally at a national or global level.
E- bikes and batteries are not the issue ----- poorly made batteries are. Shoddy construction causes internal shorts and, yes, fires. Likewise, poor battery/charger combinations which don't properly manage charge rates and/or prevent over charging.
One needs a very short memory to forget the fires caused by crappy hoverboards a few years ago.
As you point out, besides the direct victims of battery fires, the worst victims of (crappy) battery fires will ultimately be E-bike owners, banned from bringing bikes indoors.
The way to prevent fire hysteria is to reduce fires in the first place. This is a clear example of poor apples spoiling the barrel and should be managed accordingly.
If we allow the hysterical "no regulation" folks to prevent intelligent regulation, we'll end up with worse regulation later. And don't cry that you weren't warned.
E- bikes and batteries are not the issue ----- poorly made batteries are. Shoddy construction causes internal shorts and, yes, fires. Likewise, poor battery/charger combinations which don't properly manage charge rates and/or prevent over charging.
One needs a very short memory to forget the fires caused by crappy hoverboards a few years ago.
As you point out, besides the direct victims of battery fires, the worst victims of (crappy) battery fires will ultimately be E-bike owners, banned from bringing bikes indoors.
The way to prevent fire hysteria is to reduce fires in the first place. This is a clear example of poor apples spoiling the barrel and should be managed accordingly.
If we allow the hysterical "no regulation" folks to prevent intelligent regulation, we'll end up with worse regulation later. And don't cry that you weren't warned.
02-20-24, 11:45 AM
#130
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As for what may otherwise be bad assumptions, let's agree that there's plenty of room for reasonable people to have different opinions.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
02-21-24, 10:09 AM
#131
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that's a funny example. chicago's building/fire codes were completely revamped after the 1871 fire, requiring much more masonry and eventually fireproofed steel construction. it was such a significant shift that many communities and businesses were priced out of the reconstruction, or simply disobeyed the rules and got illegal wood buildings built anyway.
so, your example is actually an example of exactly what is happening here - regardless of the actual fault (cow, kitchen fire, extension cord, cheap battery, poorly maintained wiring, etc) new regulations are targeted at the most feasible place to reduce risk. in this case, it's the electric devices themselves. in chicago, it was the buildings, since outlawing cooking or accidents/mistakes was not really feasible.
so, your example is actually an example of exactly what is happening here - regardless of the actual fault (cow, kitchen fire, extension cord, cheap battery, poorly maintained wiring, etc) new regulations are targeted at the most feasible place to reduce risk. in this case, it's the electric devices themselves. in chicago, it was the buildings, since outlawing cooking or accidents/mistakes was not really feasible.
02-21-24, 07:59 PM
#132
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New Yorkers pose a bigger risk to their neighbors when using a space heater than when recharging an e bike battery.
The only reason I mentioned NYC is that seems to be where the majority of the hysteria is centered. Large metropolitan areas like NYC are the most vulnerable to fires due to the population densities. So the fact battery fires really aren't a huge issue in NYC means it is even less of an issue in the rest of the country.
Your details on certification are interesting but don't answer the question whether they significantly affect the incidence of ebike fires. The certification process is somewhat irrelevant to this conversation.
I honestly want to know whether the risks are significantly more when charging a battery. Would be really nice to see something quantitative. Would be even nicer if people would ask questions rather than trying to shame people into compliance.
The only reason I mentioned NYC is that seems to be where the majority of the hysteria is centered. Large metropolitan areas like NYC are the most vulnerable to fires due to the population densities. So the fact battery fires really aren't a huge issue in NYC means it is even less of an issue in the rest of the country.
Your details on certification are interesting but don't answer the question whether they significantly affect the incidence of ebike fires. The certification process is somewhat irrelevant to this conversation.
I honestly want to know whether the risks are significantly more when charging a battery. Would be really nice to see something quantitative. Would be even nicer if people would ask questions rather than trying to shame people into compliance.
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02-21-24, 08:04 PM
#133
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Fire regulations are the biggest contributor to enabling increased population density. Fire regulations continue to get stricter. I can't say all of the regulations are good, but I think the trend is good. I live in a 12-unit apartment building. It's a converted warehouse built in 1917 with a wood frame. In 1930, NYC outlawed wood-framed apartment buildings over a certain size. This building is at greater risk for fires than other similarly-sized buildings. I like fire regulations, in general, even though they are sometimes very costly to comply with.
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