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Gas prices these days!

Old 06-20-22, 09:33 AM
  #151  
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We deserve to get this, good and hard.

https://arstechnica.com/information-...p-it-that-way/

Unfortunately, it disproportionately hoses low-income people who have to drive.
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Old 06-20-22, 09:44 AM
  #152  
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Soon the price of gas will hit a national average of $10 and people will be freakin' out, but then demand will drop like an avalanche and prices will come down to $5 and the people will rejoice....
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Old 06-20-22, 09:46 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
I think the cost of electricity at those charging stations have also gone way up.
I recently paid $10.00 for a charge that got me less than 50 miles.
So this raises the interesting question what is the cost per mile for you (now and before), and for everybody (each in their own cars).

I think it would be a good idea if they posted conversion tables on gas pumps so people could read off "If your car gets ___ MPG, then this gas costs you ___ per mile" -- there would have to be one per fuel grade. Since people are a captive audience while they're pumping their gas, they might look themselves up on the chart.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:13 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
So this raises the interesting question what is the cost per mile for you (now and before), and for everybody (each in their own cars).

I think it would be a good idea if they posted conversion tables on gas pumps so people could read off "If your car gets ___ MPG, then this gas costs you ___ per mile" -- there would have to be one per fuel grade. Since people are a captive audience while they're pumping their gas, they might look themselves up on the chart.
Sounds like those charging stations are making some good money. What I'd be real curious in knowing is how much do people pay on average when they charge their EV at home, vs at a charging station. I've always heard that the cost is minimal, but I don't trust people are really tracking the true cost of charging at home.

$10 in today's market is equal to about 2-gallons of gas, that typically gets someone 50-miles if they get 25 MPG. But then you factor in the wait time for charging the EV....I'm not impressed.


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Old 06-20-22, 10:31 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
I have a couple of friends who are going "camping" there. I showed them that article, and suggested they take their Prius or their Tesla, but they want to go "camping" in a 1980s gas-guzzling camper van.

The could take the Tesla and stay in a Hilton for less.

I offered to loan them some of my tents and stuff, but no....
Or they can simply fill up at the station 9 miles up the road... and save $3.00 per gallon.

We have a similar situation where I now live... the local station (Shell regular) is charging $5.95 a gallon... 30 miles away, cheap gas (Mobil regular) is available for $4.79 a gallon. Now driving 60 miles round trip to save about $10 bucks doesn't make a whole lot of sense... (~10 gallon tank) but if there is some other chore, or task in that area... Hey, fill up.

But, bottom line, that one station in Mendocino is an outlier. And they know it. The woman that runs the station says they just don't justify getting better prices due to the fact that they buy so little gas.

In other reports... the average price of gas is hovering around $5 around the nation. I would suggest your friends take the Prius and a tent... but of course the van provided sleeping accommodations... So yeah, Tesla and a hotel.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:36 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Or they can simply fill up at the station 9 miles up the road... and save $3.00 per gallon.

We have a similar situation where I now live... the local station (Shell regular) is charging $5.95 a gallon... 30 miles away, cheap gas (Mobil regular) is available for $4.79 a gallon. Now driving 60 miles round trip to save about $10 bucks doesn't make a whole lot of sense... (~10 gallon tank) but if there is some other chore, or task in that area... Hey, fill up.

But, bottom line, that one station in Mendocino is an outlier. And they know it. The woman that runs the station says they just don't justify getting better prices due to the fact that they buy so little gas.

In other reports... the average price of gas is hovering around $5 around the nation. I would suggest your friends take the Prius and a tent... but of course the van provided sleeping accommodations... So yeah, Tesla and a hotel.
Or take the Prius/Tesla and rent a van when they get there.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:37 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Or they can simply fill up at the station 9 miles up the road... and save $3.00 per gallon.
It's a 1980s camper van. They are going to be filling up every 9 miles up the road.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:37 AM
  #158  
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In my area every EV charger installed is subsidized $4300

More poor people helping out the rich through their taxes.

I'm not against EV, but I think those that get them should pay the full cost of buying and operating them.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:45 AM
  #159  
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If gas prices don’t come down soon I’m going to Hemi everybody on the way to town. Fire breathing 400 HP get out of the way! lol
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Old 06-20-22, 10:47 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker View Post
In my area every EV charger installed is subsidized $4300

More poor people helping out the rich through their taxes.

I'm not against EV, but I think those that get them should pay the full cost of buying and operating them.
Why doesn't the govt build gas stations too?
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Old 06-20-22, 10:55 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker View Post
In my area every EV charger installed is subsidized $4300

More poor people helping out the rich through their taxes.

I'm not against EV, but I think those that get them should pay the full cost of buying and operating them.
No P&R
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Old 06-20-22, 11:00 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by SpedFast View Post
Why doesn't the govt build gas stations too?
Well the government already supports Big Oil with drilling leases, and tax incentives... you want them selling gas too? Seriously, the American consumer has not paid the full price for the cost of gas... in forever... Meanwhile, this also allows Big Oil to report record profits... in spite of the price of oil itself being lower than previous times of high gas prices.
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Old 06-20-22, 02:20 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post

If gas prices don’t come down soon I’m going to Hemi everybody on the way to town. Fire breathing 400 HP get out of the way! lol
Meh, my HVAC dude has one of these. 702 HP and 10 MPG, baby !

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Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 06-20-22 at 03:13 PM. Reason: changed MPH to MPG
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Old 06-20-22, 02:21 PM
  #164  
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What's funny is that the Govt gives out incentives and then punishes you for doing what it asked. I can see this happening if a ton of people buy these EV cars and you're already seeing it in those that went solar on their homes.

Remember the push to go diesel, because they have lower co2 emissions?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nt-tax-us.html

Enough to make you choke! First we were bribed to buy diesel cars. Now they want to tax us for doing so. One furious driver says the latest price hike is an outrage

When I bought my diesel-powered Citroen C5 estate six years ago, the last thing on my mind was that I would end up being treated as an environmental vandal by a government minister.

The rates for road tax seemed to be encouraging me to buy a diesel car. With lower carbon emissions, my new car fell into a much lower taxation band than my old petrol- powered Peugeot 406.

It is quite a shock, then, to hear Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin warning motorists like me that we face a hike in taxes designed to punish us for doing what we thought was the right thing and buying a diesel car.
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Old 06-20-22, 03:05 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Meh, my HVAC dude has one of these. 702 HP and 10 MPH, baby !

Cool! Has the Hellcat engine. I have seen one in Hondo. Awesome truck but not practical I can get 21 mpg at 70mph being easy on the throttle. Love the truck but too broke to buy one lol. I don’t think I would anyways but then again.
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Old 06-20-22, 04:18 PM
  #166  
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It's funny when people blame "the government" like it's a monolith. The EPA and the DOT are NOT on the same page. The FDA and the Dept of Agriculture aren't either.
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Old 06-20-22, 08:03 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
So this raises the interesting question what is the cost per mile for you (now and before), and for everybody (each in their own cars).

I think it would be a good idea if they posted conversion tables on gas pumps so people could read off "If your car gets ___ MPG, then this gas costs you ___ per mile" -- there would have to be one per fuel grade. Since people are a captive audience while they're pumping their gas, they might look themselves up on the chart.
I wish I could figure that out too. Unless I pay at the electric pump, my electric vehicle charging cost is just buried in my SDG&E bills. And I'm too lazy and\or stoopid to do some sort of cost per kilowatt analysis.
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Old 06-20-22, 09:31 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
I wish I could figure that out too. Unless I pay at the electric pump, my electric vehicle charging cost is just buried in my SDG&E bills. And I'm too lazy and\or stoopid to do some sort of cost per kilowatt analysis.
Whatever your rate per kWH is times the empty to full capacity of your battery will give you the total cost of a 0-100% charge. From there, figure the amount you need to return the charge to 100% for a given charge cycle.

For myself:
The rate is $0.101 per kWh. It should be listed prominently on your utility bill. Multiply the rate by the 25kw capacity of the battery & that equals $2.52 & 1/2 cents for a 0-100% charge.

Say I drive 45 miles & return home with 50% capacity, meaning I need 50% of $2.525 to return to full...That's $1.26&1/4cents of electricity into the battery to do my daily commute round trip.

Perhaps another 10-20% got lost as heat in the charger because the charger is only 80 to 90% efficient. So, ~12-25 cents of electricity lost in the act of charging...So, worst case for this days refill is ~$1.50 at the electric meter.

For comparison: Say at 75mph your gasoline/diesel powered vehicle gets 15mpg. 75/15= 5 gallons per hour fuel consumption. Multiply the fuel consumption rate times $5/gallon fuel cost = $25/hour.

Different places have different rates for electricity. Different batteries have different capacities, etc...likewise for pump price & mpg. But, I hope the walk-thru on the math being basic multiplication was clear. Explaining math is not exactly my strong suit. But the results are compelling nonetheless.

Last edited by base2; 06-20-22 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 06-20-22, 09:44 PM
  #169  
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This is from 2021, and quotes a gas price of $2.81 a gallon. Use it as a guide.

A mid-priced internal combustion car that gets 33 miles per gallon would cost $8.58 in overall costs to drive 100 miles at $2.81 a gallon, the study found. But a mid-priced EV, such as Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf or a Tesla Model 3, would cost $12.95 to drive 100 miles in terms of costs that include recharging the vehicle using mostly a commercial charger.

On a yearly basis, assuming the mid-priced cars traveled 12,000 miles, it would cost $1,030 to drive an internal combustion car and $1,554 to drive an EV.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...as/6110815001/

So according to the article, at $2.81 a gallon, the gas car is more economical. But now, at $5.00 a gallon, the EV wins.
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Old 06-20-22, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
This is from 2021, and quotes a gas price of $2.81 a gallon. Use it as a guide.


https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...as/6110815001/

So according to the article, at $2.81 a gallon, the gas car is more economical. But now, at $5.00 a gallon, the EV wins.
That quote says "overall costs", which I assume includes purchase cost. EVs have a significant price premium at purchase, and I did the math before that it would take more than 5 years to break even. But I think if you ignore that up front cost (consider it to be sunk cost for a premium option that you will enjoy, like leather or a sporty trim package), then the running cost of electric is less.
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Old 06-20-22, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Whatever your rate per kWH is times the empty to full capacity of your battery will give you the total cost of a 0-100% charge. From there, figure the amount you need to return the charge to 100% for a given charge cycle.

For myself:
The rate is $0.101 per kWh. It should be listed prominently on your utility bill. Multiply the rate by the 25kw capacity of the battery & that equals $2.52 & 1/2 cents for a 0-100% charge.

Say I drive 45 miles & return home with 50% capacity, meaning I need 50% of $2.525 to return to full...That's $1.26&1/4cents of electricity into the battery to do my daily commute round trip.

Perhaps another 10-20% got lost as heat in the charger because the charger is only 80 to 90% efficient. So, ~12-25 cents of electricity lost in the act of charging...So, worst case for this days refill is ~$1.50 at the electric meter.

For comparison: Say at 75mph your gasoline/diesel powered vehicle gets 15mpg. 75/15= 5 gallons per hour fuel consumption. Multiply the fuel consumption rate times $5/gallon fuel cost = $25/hour.

Different places have different rates for electricity. Different batteries have different capacities, etc...likewise for pump price & mpg. But, I hope the walk-thru on the math being basic multiplication was clear. Explaining math is not exactly my strong suit. But the results are compelling nonetheless.
A little more directly would be how many miles since your last fill-up charge, and then what is the cost of electricity to fill it up; divide to get dollars per mile. Similarly with gas.
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Old 06-21-22, 12:46 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
A little more directly would be how many miles since your last fill-up charge, and then what is the cost of electricity to fill it up; divide to get dollars per mile. Similarly with gas.
In the above example, 45 miles is $1.50
The same 45 miles in a petrol is $5 (Prius) to $15 (generic SUV/truck)
So...

Every car, rate, daily use is different. I was just citing my own personal use case. The buck & a half per commute day holds as validated by my electric bill. It increased by about $25 factoring in the number of days the car doesn't get used or used very little. I am an above average stickler on utility usage in general. 20,000 miles in 32 months leads to a predictable trend line. What I am saying is my calculations are robust for my use case.

I also make an effort to avoid public chargers. Another person may have different habits or needs. Though I have found for the most part they range from free to equivalent to about 35mpg depending on the whims of that particular station owner.

The most expensive fill I ever had ever was at a public 440v DC station in a Target parking lot. It cost about $7 for a big 10-90% charge (It was a big mile day & the car refuses DC above a certain threshold) plus station occupancy penalty. The charge took about 30 minutes. Thats totally on me though. I was in a food court chomping a burrito & a Diet Coke being generally complacent.

I could've got 40 miles in 2 hours across the street for free. Oops.


Edit: Yes. 3.333 ents per mile x the 1.2 miles to the grocery store, then 1.2 miles back home would work as well, but I found thast to be a bit tedious & mentally fatiguing. It's just easier to work from the known known in the percent to full terms above. "The battery says 32% charge. That means I need 68% (of $2.52)" This is more reasonable as everyday I prefer to start at the same full state & the actual cost per mile & mileage available vary based on how I drive, where I drive, environmental conditions, heat/air conditioning & a bunch of other factors.

Last edited by base2; 06-21-22 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 06-21-22, 04:44 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Different places have different rates for electricity. Different batteries have different capacities, etc...
Our condo building installed Level 2 chargers (the charger cost was rebated by our power utility) for those who wanted them and did dedicated EV meters which makes it easy to see the cost of charging on our bill. For a full charge giving 400 miles our cost is $15.69 ($3.92 per 100 miles) using the less grid use evening rate (which is when we charge) and a small EV power discount from our power utility. When I bought our car I also negotiated free supercharging for the length of my ownership. With one of the supercharger sites very close and at a mall with an organic food cooperative I can charge there (15 minutes for 200 miles) for free while shopping or more importantly use them while we are traveling.

For those complaining about the temporary BEV tax credits and rebates they should really look into the huge permanent taxpayer subsidies going to the fossil fuel industry and stop with the oil industries instigated falsehoods in trying to protect their profits….and really HUGE profits at the moment!
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Old 06-21-22, 05:14 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
That quote says "overall costs", which I assume includes purchase cost. EVs have a significant price premium at purchase, and I did the math before that it would take more than 5 years to break even. But I think if you ignore that up front cost (consider it to be sunk cost for a premium option that you will enjoy, like leather or a sporty trim package), then the running cost of electric is less.
They are only looking at operating costs...
“That’s apples to apples and includes the extra EV taxes, the commercial charging and the home charging and the allowance of driving to a gas station, which, for most Americans, is very short compared to driving to a commercial charger for an EV owner," Anderson said.
It also is based on Michigan rates for electricity and an annual EV tax that Michigan levies. SDGE rates are different and the current price of gas is now much higher.

I remember neighbors in Clairemont Mesa area getting solar panels on their roof for charging their EV... and SDGE had a solar charger demonstration station at Diane Square on Clairemont Mesa blvd... go that route and your investment in solar will pay for itself in keeping your car charged. Screw the rising price of gasoline.

Last edited by genec; 06-21-22 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 06-21-22, 12:57 PM
  #175  
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But since I had to go to Costco anyway, and since I know, from looking up the gas prices every morning for this show, that they have the cheapest gas, I decided that I would wait in the Costco gas line.

And wait I did. For 20 minutes. 9-and-a-half gallons. $49.

First of all, I want to compliment the Costco clientele – everybody was orderly: no honking, no eruptions of impatience.

But it revealed a little hypocrisy on my part because as you know, I have never hesitated to point out the time it takes to charge an electric car.

And yet I voluntarily waited 20 minutes to charge up a gas car to save a little money.

I was not the only gas user willing to invest that time. That tells me that many others— who are also reluctant to buy an electric car because of the charge time – are also hypocrites. Especially since you can charge the car at home any time it’s parked without waiting at all.

So, this little incident has me thinking that when times get tough enough that people are willing to line up to save money, it’s the electric car that defines freedom, while the gas car defines craven subservience to Big Oil.
https://mynorthwest.com/3526501/ross...ine-at-costco/

Food for thought.
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