Building Safer Streets Act to fix MUTCD
11-16-23, 03:36 PM
#1
Happy banana slug
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times
in
917 Posts
Building Safer Streets Act to fix MUTCD
I really really hope it passes. I want safe intersections, artistic crosswalks, and at least a few 9' lanes in my town.
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2023/11/...ad-user-safety
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2023/11/...ad-user-safety
11-16-23, 06:31 PM
#2
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked 1,846 Times
in
835 Posts
If all goes well, the 11th Edition of the MUTCD should be published by the end of 2023, culminating a whole lot of of hard work and evaluation that started back in 2009. Many agencies and practitioners are very much looking forward to it finally being available. That being said, there will likely be a revision to incorporate PROWAG going into rulemaking sometime in 2024.
Last edited by RCMoeur; 11-19-23 at 10:19 AM.
11-17-23, 05:22 AM
#3
Senior Member
What is the point? America’s entire approach to road safety is backwards. A vehicle or a road is only as safe as the drivers who use them. I spent a number of years in law enforcement cleaning up wrecks, a good number of which were fatal. In almost no case was a vehicle or road at fault in these collisions, they were almost always caused by negligent drivers.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
Likes For 50PlusCycling:
11-17-23, 01:04 PM
#4
Punk Rock Lives
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Throughout the west in a van, on my bike, and in the forest
Posts: 3,305
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker with BRIFTERS!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times
in
40 Posts
"You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them."
Yikes...cars can drive or park on a bicycle in Tokyo?
Damn those dangling participles....or whatever the grammatical error was......
Yes there roads are narrow/narrower but their vehicles are narrower and smaller also. I always loved seeing the small CATS and Backhoes etc that they used to work on the roads as well. The Japanese were delighted to hear that my favorite touring bicycle was a FUJI.
Yikes...cars can drive or park on a bicycle in Tokyo?
Damn those dangling participles....or whatever the grammatical error was......
Yes there roads are narrow/narrower but their vehicles are narrower and smaller also. I always loved seeing the small CATS and Backhoes etc that they used to work on the roads as well. The Japanese were delighted to hear that my favorite touring bicycle was a FUJI.
11-17-23, 03:24 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 401 Times
in
277 Posts
Yes there roads are narrow/narrower but their vehicles are narrower and smaller also.
11-17-23, 05:27 PM
#6
Senior Member
In Japan the money comes from the licensing, fuel tax, and highway tolls, and the time is seen rather as an investment than a cost. When you take a country like America in which 40,000 people are killed on the roads every year, millions are injured, and billions of dollars lost, you might think road safety is a problem worthy of attention. Unfortunately, the opposite has been occurring. In many states laws have been relaxed against driving unlicensed and/or uninsured, and habitual traffic offenders are no longer arrested as they once were when caught driving. This is a recipe for more death and injury which no amount road improvement can allay.
11-17-23, 07:32 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 401 Times
in
277 Posts
In Japan the money comes from the licensing, fuel tax, and highway tolls, and the time is seen rather as an investment than a cost. When you take a country like America in which 40,000 people are killed on the roads every year, millions are injured, and billions of dollars lost, you might think road safety is a problem worthy of attention. Unfortunately, the opposite has been occurring. In many states laws have been relaxed against driving unlicensed and/or uninsured, and habitual traffic offenders are no longer arrested as they once were when caught driving. This is a recipe for more death and injury which no amount road improvement can allay.
11-17-23, 09:25 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,811
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,020 Times
in
572 Posts
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...r/71582951007/
11-17-23, 09:39 PM
#9
Happy banana slug
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times
in
917 Posts
Cool!
They just did a few crosswalks in my town. I like the idea:
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...r/71582951007/
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...r/71582951007/
11-17-23, 09:50 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times
in
1,030 Posts
What is the point? America’s entire approach to road safety is backwards. A vehicle or a road is only as safe as the drivers who use them. I spent a number of years in law enforcement cleaning up wrecks, a good number of which were fatal. In almost no case was a vehicle or road at fault in these collisions, they were almost always caused by negligent drivers.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
Likes For Kontact:
12-15-23, 07:48 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3781 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times
in
793 Posts
What is the point? America’s entire approach to road safety is backwards. A vehicle or a road is only as safe as the drivers who use them. I spent a number of years in law enforcement cleaning up wrecks, a good number of which were fatal. In almost no case was a vehicle or road at fault in these collisions, they were almost always caused by negligent drivers.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
Years ago I moved to Japan, where the approach to safety is more serious. In the early postwar years. Japan’s roads were mayhem. Narrow, busy, and used by a mix pedestrians, cyclists, cars, and trucks. The result was carnage. Japan understood what I mentioned in my first paragraph, and that in order to make the roads safer, drivers had to be made safer. And Japan, knowing it couldn’t do much to widen or improve the road system, created a system to make safer drivers.
One of the first things I did when I arrived in Japan was get a drivers license. It was not a simple or inexpensive process. It took several weeks of classes and behind-the-wheel instruction, during which safety was repeatedly stressed. Over and over the consequences of unsafe driving were drilled into me. The written test, containing some 200 questions, focused mainly on safety, as did the driving test. In the end, the total cost to get my license was nearly $3000.
The reason the tests are so hard is because traffic laws are harsh. Japan does not believe in the concept of “accidents.” According to Japanese law, a vehicle collision is always the result of negligence. Any negligence resulting in injury becomes criminal negligence, any negligence resulting in death will incur a mandatory prison sentence. I said in another post that if a pedestrian or cyclist is killed by a motor vehicle operator, the operator will go to jail, regardless of the circumstances, And that last point is true, if a cyclist runs a red light, and you hit him and kill him, you will go to jail, period. When you drive a vehicle in Japan, you are told repeatedly that you “must expect the unexpected.” Anyone who drives on a road or highway assumes a high level of responsibility. Even if you are stopped at a red light, and you are rear-ended by another vehicle, you are considered partially at fault. It sounds crazy, but it causes drivers to pay much more attention.
Because of Japan’s licensing system, and the laws which govern road use, Japan’s roads are remarkably safe. And they are safe despite the fact they are narrower and often busier than roads anywhere in America. If you look around Tokyo, you’ll see lots of narrow roads with no shoulders, and almost no dedicated bike lanes. You’ll see markings on the road for bicycles, which began appearing 3 or 4 years ago, but cars are permitted to drive or park on them. Despite what appears to be a road system unfriendly to cyclists, more than a million people commute by bicycle every day in relative safety.
https://news.yahoo.com/navy-officer-...l&uh_test=0_00
Navy officer jailed in Japan over deadly crash headed back to the US
In the spring of 2021, after a period of land-based assignments, Alkonis, a Southern California native, was preparing for a deployment as a department head on the USS Benfold, a missile destroyer.With the assignment looming, he set out for an excursion of Mount Fuji for hiking and sightseeing with his wife and children. They had climbed pat of the mountain and were back in the car, heading to lunch and ice cream near in a town near the base of Mount Fuji, when, his family says, he suddenly lost consciousness after suffering acute mountain sickness.
He was so out of it, they say, that neither his daughter’s screams to wake up nor the impact of the collision roused him. His car veered into parked cars and pedestrians in a parking lot, striking the woman and her son-in-law. They both died later.
After the crash near Fujinomiya, Alkonis was arrested by Japanese authorities and was held for 26 days in solitary confinement at a police detention facility, was interrogated multiple times a day and was not given medical treatment or an evaluation, according to a statement of facts provided by a family spokesman.
That statement said that when American authorities arrived to take Alkonis into custody and return him to a U.S. base, he already was held by the Japanese.
He was indicted on a charge of a negligent driving, resulting in death, and was sentenced that October to three years in prison.
12-15-23, 12:24 PM
#13
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,980
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,538 Times
in
1,047 Posts
Yet a few of our A&S colleagues insist on repeatedly making just such comparisons as some sort of specious bicycling advocacy and/or bicycling safety lesson.
12-15-23, 06:05 PM
#14
Senior Member
An example of Japan's enforcement of driving laws. They don't fool around.
https://news.yahoo.com/navy-officer-...l&uh_test=0_00
https://news.yahoo.com/navy-officer-...l&uh_test=0_00
This officer was treated very leniently by Japaneses standards. Had he not been an American serviceman, he would have spent much more time in jail. He had been facing a 7 year sentence, had he been Japanese, that’s what he would have gotten.
Likes For jon c.:
