shoota 

Hey all - quick question. What's the preferred way to keep bladed spokes oriented correctly when tensioning nipples? I need to dish my wheel just ever so slightly but when I turn the nipple the bladed spoke turns as well. I'm guessing I need to hold to spoke in place somehow while I turn the nipple?

Crankycrank

You can get special holders for the spokes for tensioning or just use an adjustable end wrench. The holders are a little less effort to use if you use them a lot and less likely to leave marks on black spokes. bladed spoke holders - Search (bing.com)

CliffordK

I just true my wheels and ignore windup. Then the last step is unwinding the spokes once true.

No special tools needed other than the spoke wrenches.

oldbobcat

If you don't prevent bladed spokes from twisting, they will often wind up with a full twist or more before the thread catches. That negates the aero effect of the blade and can't be good for the spoke. Sometimes I can hold them by pinching with my fingers just above the nipple. I always keep a tool handy, though. Like this one: https://www.jensonusa.com/Park-Tool-...d-Spoke-Holder Your local shop might have them for sale, too. Or they might have some spares lying around. Sometimes they're included with the bike or wheel set.

rm -rf

I made a spoke holder
I used a cheap plastic screwdriver handle. Cut it off near the metal blade. Then saw a slot in the end of the handle. I used a 32 tooth hacksaw blade.
That was a bit too narrow for my CXray spokes, so I widened it with a folded piece of fine sandpaper.

It works fine for me, it's easy to keep the spoke from twisting. I use it as close to the nipple as possible.

Dan Burkhart 

If the nipple is seized ,putting a permanent twist on a light bladed spoke like a CX Ray or Aerolite can happen easier and quicker than you think. I build quite a lot with these spokes and on a new build with lubricated threads, it is easy enough to keep the spokes correctly oriented using a twist resist tool.
When truing well used wheels with a risk of seized nipples, I first put a drop of light oil where the spoke enters the nipple and let it penetrate.
I watch the spoke closely for signs that the end of the spoke is turning with the nipple while holding the spoke as close as possible to the nipple.

FBinNY 

I've been building whers with light 15gDB spokes for half a century, so managing spoke twist is old hat.

2 tips.

1 - lubricate threads to reduce twist in the first place. Use either a thick grease or something like corn oil which will become be sticky over time.

2- learn to feel the twist and use a motion like 3 steps forward and one back with every adjustment. This will become second nature, and stand you well on all future builds.

FWIW - blade spokes are easy because twist is obvious. But all light spokes twist, you just don't see it. So managing twist is important for all builds.

Lombard

I either use needle nose plyers or use the "3 steps forward, 2 steps backward" method.

The advantage to bladed spokes is it's easy to see how much spoke twist there is and compensate for it. I find them much easier to work with than round spokes.

And it goes without saying to oil those spoke threads before you start.

_ForceD_

Working with blade spokes is frustrating to me. I have a couple bikes with them. When I’m truing those wheels, I use a pair of channel-locks that have the jaws angled at 45° to hold the blade from twisting. The angle allows me to pinch the blade evenly. I keep telling myself that I’m gonna get (or make) one of those tools like pictured above.

Dan

oldbobcat

I build with spoke prep, and every pre-built wheel I've worked on used spoke prep. How stable are your wheels built with oiled threads?

FBinNY 

Very.

Note that I use a thick grease which provides a decent amount of viscous sticktion.

In any case, there's also nipple/rim friction. Overall, I believe that loosening spokes are the result of spokes not elongated enough by tension, as might be by the case with 14g NDS spokes.

While there's tons of of discussion about tension, the reality (IMO) is that spoke elongation is more important.

A 14g spoke at <80kgf may need adhesion to stay tight, but a 14/16g or 15g at the same tension will stay tight without help.

FWIW spoked wheels predate spoke prep by almost a century. Somehow we managed.

tFUnK

I just use pliers and only put enough pressure to break the initial friction. If I were worried about scratching or gouging the spoke, I suppose I could put some tape on the jaws, but I've never bothered.

Lombard

I use mineral oil on my threads and none of my wheels have ever had spokes loosen. Spoke prep is a crutch for a poor build. NDS tensions in the 50-60kgF range are sufficient to keep spokes from loosening as long as your tensions are even on each side and you have stress relieved your wheels properly. Granted that I build wheels as a hobby and not for a living, so I can take my time in being very thorough about all the steps.

oldbobcat

I'll give it a try. The rims on my Bontrager Race Lites are nearing the end of their life, but the hubs are strong. I've been thinking of rebuilding them with Aeolus Comp TLRs.

shoota 

Thanks all, super helpful!

oldbobcat

Does that mean no dish, or does that mean even tension on one side?

FBinNY 

It means exactly what he said.

There's even tension on EACH side, independent of, and not necessarily equal to the other.

oldbobcat

OK. I wasn't trying to be obtuse.

Lombard

Even tension on one side.