Originally Posted by seypat

Maybe I was being sarcastic. I thought the rant about large flange hubs would give it away. It didn't so that means it was the perfect amount of believable. People are too serious here on BF.

That being said, I do have 3 sets of wheels with large flange hubs. They do have a better ride than small flange. I wish they were still around.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

I must not understand what 'sliding out' means because to me it seems really easy for someone to slide out in a sharp turn, regardless of hub design or spoke lacing and regardless of tire type, if the tire deflates or if the tire loses contact with the ground.
The fact that a tubular tire will stay attached to the rim doesn't mean a wheel won't slide out on a sharp corner if the tire deflates or if the rider hits a bump at a bad angle during the turn.
A shallow box rim won't keep a rider from sliding out on a sharp corner if the rider hits a bump, the wheel loses contact with the ground, and the rider is at a bad angle during the turn.
The lacing pattern of a wheel won't keep a rider from sliding out on a sharp corner if the rider hits a bump, the wheel loses contact with the ground, and the rider is at a bad angle during the turn.




I was responding to Fredo76 whose post I find to be of little value and erroneous because he attaches benefits to something that doesn't inherently contain those claimed benefits.
If someone slides out on a sharp turn using a carbon rim and disc brake, there is 0 reason to think they wouldn't have slid out on that same sharp turn using a box rim with tubular tire and traditional lacing to a low flange hub.
Like really, what does the lacing pattern have to do with anything? Why would a low flange hub stop a wheel from sliding out in a sharp turn better than the hub flange height of a modern hub?...and speaking of, why is Fredo assuming the modern hubs aren't also low flange?


I think his post was bad and contained erroneous information which misdirects the issue and frames the type of equipment he likes in a positive light. So I questioned his comment.
But since you two have responded, I am open to underswtand hat I am missing here. Why would a low flange box rim 3 cross laced tubular wheel not slide out in a sharp turn? And if that can be answered, then this can also be answered- why do carbon rim tubeless wheels with disc brakes slide out in that same sharp turn?

Originally Posted by Fredo76

They just seem to me to happen more often on disc wheels, with my woefully inadequate sampling...

And my conclusion stands, regardless - not crashing is faster than aero.

Originally Posted by Aubergine

I can't say how this fits into modern wheels and tires, but back in the late 70s and 80s my sewup wheels were noticeably better at cornering than my clinchers. It was my impression that the clincher tires were somewhat oval, so grip was lost suddenly if I leaned over the "edge" of the oval. Whereas the tubulars had no edge, so were more predictable. I am far from having very good balance but I was able to catch a skid on the tubulars. On clinchers, I just went bang.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

I didn't question your conclusion, I questioned the reasoning you used to reach your conclusion. The fact that you don't understand I was questioning your reasoning, even though I laid out in detail why I question your reasoning, is spot on for this conversation.

Originally Posted by Fredo76

Please instruct me on how to Ignore a member. Does this forum have that feature? How do I do it? I'm serious.

I've got a list, of people who like to argue about arguing, it seems.

Originally Posted by Fredo76

I mean the rear wheel losing traction in the fashion that motorcyclists call a "low-side" crash, without sand, gravel, rain or oil present as an obvious cause. They just seem to me to happen more often on disc wheels, with my woefully inadequate sampling consisting of watching a couple of team time trial stages and being surprised by low-side crashes, as if someone had rolled a tire. I don't know the reason they would be more common, technically, and so supposed what might solve it - older equipment, because I don't recall it happening much before disc wheels. Just a guess, not an engineering claim.

And my conclusion stands, regardless - not crashing is faster than aero.

Originally Posted by Fredo76

Please instruct me on how to Ignore a member. Does this forum have that feature? How do I do it? I'm serious.

I've got a list, of people who like to argue about arguing, it seems.