Slowride79

Ok finally got it home and excited to build! I was disassembling to clean frame and fork and the lower head tube race of the headset came out in my hand. On further inspection the race was spinning in the head tube such that it wore a groove in the head tube and now it’s under spec so won’t hold race.
I will have to replace headset as it’s worn (see crown race) but

1) how to retain head tube race such that it’s centered properly and can be removed later if necessary? I don’t want to use epoxy or equivalent.

2) replacement for TDC Continental Italia? Hard to find stack height in internet. Some say 38.5 others 41mm

Sierra

Perhaps the Lok-Tite green, used for retaining cartridge bearings?
I think it releases with a little heat.
The blue may work also. The red requires 400 degrees to release I think, so probably don't want to use that.

steelbikeguy

There may be better solutions, but bearing retaining compound came to my mind too.
There are a variety of different types, so it's best to look at Loctite's info on what each type is good for.

One advantage of bearing retaining compound is that you don't do any permanent damage and can try Plan B if it doesn't work.

Steve in Peoria

brewerkz 

could a cup with a longer section work, engages past the worn area ? Just thinking out loud of ideas.

Slowride79

Hello Sierra, Steve, for bearing retaining compound and thoughts on how to center the cup? As it is now there is slop ; you can move it side to side inside the head tube.

Hello Brewerkz, a longer section cup extending past the worn area is a good idea. Comparing the TDC cup with one from a Nuevo record Campagnolo, the Campagnolo definitely has longer section. The problem is Campagnolo stack height according to what is 39mm and I measure 36mm of thread on fork. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
thanks everyone for your help.

El Chaba

Try wrapping a couple of layers of Teflon plumber’s tape on the area of the cup to be inserted ….

mpetry912 

definitely the comment above about the longer sleeve section on the cup.

Personally I would advise against the vintage Campagnolo simply because replacement parts are so expensive. if you change the headset cup you are likely going to also need a crown race to match.

My favorite is the stronglight A9, roller bearing headset, will absolutely last forever, but you can find others that will work well and likely cost less.

you can set up some interference on the lower cup sleeve by using your automatic center punch to make a couple "dimples" on the sleeve to acheive some more bite. Not saying I recommend this - but it is a last resort to consider if an appropriately tight fit cannot be achieved.

when you say it wore a groove in the head tube do you mean the steerer tube right above the crown race ? if so that's a bad place for damage like that.

this is a nice frame - Vincintore - the top Mercian model - the tells are the long BB tangs. Worth fixing.

/markp

steelbikeguy

how much slop?
Do you have calipers to measure the ID of the headtube and the OD of the cup?

Steve in Peoria

repechage

Campagnolo GS or Pista headset has a shorter stack height.

Slowride79

Hello Steve, please see pictures above. Head tube area where spinning cup made a groove diameter is 30.5mm . TDC cup that came installed is 29.93mm.

Slowride79

Hello @mpetry912

I may have SL A9 roller bearing headset but if so it would definitely be “French “ / metric. Will have to look. Maybe reuse TDC upper assembly ?

Agree on Campagnolo. I have complete Nuevo Record but spare parts are dear.

please see pic pointing out groove in head subs from spinning lower cup.

ive been told its a Mercian Professional. I’ll look for catalog pic.
many thanks,
Steve

mpetry912 

you can just replace the lower unit and the upper cup and nut will never know the difference.

I see the groove. That does not look catastrophic.

/markp

steelbikeguy

Loctite has a guide to their retaining compounds.
On page 16, they have a selection guide with some questions to help find the best product.
The first question is "Is the assembly badly worn?". If you chose "yes", it points you to Loctite 660, which can handle gaps up to 0.5mm. It sounds like your parts fit this general description.

disclaimer: I've never used this stuff, especially in this application. Loctite makes some serious products for industrial use, and I have confidence in their recommendations.

Steve in Peoria

Slowride79

Thanks for link Steve. I’m leaning towards this solution after all. Here is that table you were referring to…

obrentharris 

Steve S. I've had good luck with a beer can shim in this situation. Cut the strip of aluminum long enough to wrap all the way around to keep the cup centered. I only have a few hundred miles on the bike at this point but it has held up fine so far. Others with longer term experience with this solution will hopefully chime in.
Brent

daka

What about putting some dimples on the press-fit surface of the lower race with a center-punch before pushing in in? Kind of a poor-man's knurling operation. Enough that the lower race can't rotate any more and add further wear to the head tube.

Slowride79

For disassembly Locktite (Henkel) recommends applying heat to 250c (483F) or if not possible combination heat and “mechanical means.”

****does anyone have experience disassembling after using Locktite 638 or 660 (or any bearing setting compound for that matter?

Otherwise may use Brent’s Al can method (thank you). Read Al can blanks are 0.25mm and after drawing/forming wall thickness is 0.1mm.

merziac

I would at least use super glue with the beer/pop can shim, use enough shim to get it good and tight and use the glue, none of this will be anywhere close to permanent or hard to unwind.

The Loctite specs are for industrial use, generally on heavier duty applications and not this sloppy, none of them would be likely to stop a proper cup driver from removing it.

I can tell you from 35 years experience as a fomoco and ASE Senior Master Tech that I have almost never seen any Loctite that put up any kind of fight that couldn't be fairly easily overcome and even then was due to corrosion, not the Loctite by itself.

Slowride79

merziac you would recommend the locktite then?
Thanks, Steve

merziac

I use the can shim and super glue.

merziac

I also try to avoid overlapping the ends of the shim so there is less bump to catch on when pressing together.

Chuckk

Maybe the headset should have been 30.2 outside (standard) instead of 30mm (JIS and Raleigh)?
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html

jingy2

I agree with the aluminum can shim fix. Have done this a bunch of times before.
Also, that's definately a Professional, not a Vincitore frame.
Jim

jonwvara 

I used a beer-can shim on the loosely fitting lower cup of my Raleigh Gran Sport ten years and hundreds of miles ago. Still holding up fine, easily done, no issues at all. I don't thing you could do any damage by trying--it's completely reversible.

jonwvara 

Yes, cut the shim to the exact circumference of the cup so it doesn't overlap when wrapped around it, and hold it temporarily in place with multiple wraps of rubber band. Once it's partially pressed into the head tube, you can remove the rubber band before pressing it the rest of the way.