sd5782 

Like many here, I purchased a cheap bike because several nice parts were on it. Also, like many here I didn’t have any specific plan. I have read the mystique of Phil hubs, and the bike had Suntour barcons on it, so I couldn’t go wrong. Anyhow, 100, 121mm spaced 36 hole first generation hubs in really nice shape laced to 27” Weinmann AG Alesa 210 rims spoked 4X with butted galvanized. They spin SO smooth.



First generation I think



Label still on, and only pits front or rear



Laced 4X with 36 butted spokes



Middling vintage rims

I was a bit disappointed that they were 120-121 spaced as I was hoping for 126. A call to Phil said no parts available to sell for these and $115 to rebuild to 126 which actually is probably reasonable, but not in my cheap plans. My 72 Fuji could wear them, but it really needs high flange, and while it wears 27” rims, its Super Champion rims with the Campy hubs look much more appropriate. I guess I need to do the C&V thing and buy another bike to use them on like a vintage tourer. The cheap bike also came with what looks like a Phil bottom bracket too, so another conundrum about spending the bucks for the tool. Problems, problems.

Germany_chris

Depending on the BB I might be interested in buying it

nlerner

You could likely get away with 2mm spacers on both axle ends, and then you’ll be close enough to 126mm to run 6 or 7-speed freewheels.

sd5782 

That was my thought. I am running some first generation Dura Ace spaced like that on a vintage Trek. Those however do allow one to put the washer behind the knurled outer cap. The Dura Ace has only perhaps 2mm at most in the dropouts, but per Sheldon, that is plenty if clamped properly. I think I need to buy a nice vintage 120mm spaced sport tourer and put a narrow 6 on it.

Peruano

I faced the same quandry and decided to let phil do the respacing. You bought a caddy why have your cousin vito overhaul it or use it for snow plowing?
Phil will also renew the grease as a bonus.

sd5782 

Actually that includes new axle and bearings, so good price as I said. It does however go against the concept of finding cheap parts but then paying double or more the purchase price for reconditioning.

billytwosheds 

Yes and at the same time, a lot of people would consider those lifetime hubs.

You got a good deal, now celebrate by investing in the future. No?

Kabuki12

They are very nice hubs, I have them a two of my bikes. The second set came on a donor bike when I was building my Raleigh Pro MK V . I was looking for some nice vintage 700c wheels and found a really nice bike on CL for $100. It had some nice stuff as well as the Mavic wheels with these hubs. The plating is still good and they were very smooth with low miles. So I bought the bike and gave the frame away. The BB is well worth the cost of the Phil tool, which you can buy on eBay. I have one on my Colnago and it is every bit as good as a Campagnolo(better?).

sd5782 

Thanks for the replies folks. Yes, that price is basically for a total rebuild on the rear hub. The kind gentleman on the phone stated that disassembly was problematic and often destroyed the bearings. Therefore the repair was with a newer style axle. New bearings needed then I suppose. I suspect this axle would be the one that is user serviceable. Being 66 years old, lifetime for me as far as riding is not as long as for others here. I don’t put on millions of miles and personally like the high flange look better. I will hang on to them and perhaps a bike or frame will show up that needs them.

pastorbobnlnh 

This sounds like the perfect C&V plan! I came across an Atom Compact 6-speed, 13-30, freewheel in my serviced spare freewheels this week. It could complement your rear wheel very well.

Trakhak

You already own a UO14, so you know hi-tensile frames can be great riders. Perhaps you should refurbish the cheap bike with the Phil hubs. You might enjoy the ride. Someone thought it was good enough to deserve the upgraded wheels, after all.

sd5782 

I have to revisit the UO14. It is in the basement at my daughters. It actually didn’t thrill me with the ride. Looking at my stable of riders, I believe the seat tube geometry on the Peugeot is the culprit as IIRC it positions me a bit too far forward over the pedals. This dimension seems most critical to me. The Peugeot also is equipped with the infamous heliocomatic that I actually reconditioned. It has a nice 13-30 and beautiful Weinmann concaves. It is also 126 spaced.

Steel Charlie

I still have a pair of Phil's laced to Fiamme Ergal tubulars. Been hanging in the rafters for 30+ years. Probably should decide what to do with them someday soon....

The Golden Boy 

I sort of get where you're at with these things- My first set of Phil wheels was an early set of 40 spoke, front and rear, laced to 27" Super Champion Modele 58s- They're some heavy wheels. I don't recall what they're spaced at, but I could only get a 5 speed freewheel on. They're super cool, they look cool, spin great, but they're heavy. Right now they reside on my Trek TX700. That experience with those wheels did make me want a more "spritely" set of wheels like that.

As far as age... I'd guess you're sort of in the "sweet spot" for age around here... there's younger, and there's older... Being at 54, I'm at that point where all the stupid **** I've done to my body is all catching up to me- and while I don't ride ANYWHERE as much as I used to, my bikes are way cooler than I deserve. At this point, I'm not so much into finding stuff on the cheap, as I am finding the stuff I actually want. In your case- you've got a sort of desirable wheel set, with a pretty desirable set of early Phil hubs- which would probably fetch either good money or trade bait towards a fancy high flange set...

FWIW- Phil had a front hub through Rivendell called the "Rivvy" hub- a highly polished Phil Wood hub that had the old school high flange look. Best of all worlds...

IMG_0079 by 1969TGB, on Flickr

sd5782 

Yes to all that too. Plus there is the fact that hanging around here causes one to wonder what all the fuss is about with certain components. I guess you have to see for yourself. This old ladies bike also came with the Phil BB and Suntour barcons. I wanted to at least take the bike for a spin to try the barcons. I ride on the handlebar tops 95% of the time and always thought barcons weren’t for me. Soon I will take a spin to probably confirm this from experience. I even like stem shifters. So being retired, a worthy experience. My vintage Fuji Newest that the Phils would work on already has Campy high flange and Super Champion 58s in 27”. I sure wouldn’t replace them as I love the looks and the ride. FWIW the Phil hubs are spoked 4X which I have read is a positive. Rims are Weinmann Alesa 210s in 27” which look nice, but I can’t find much about. Non hooked but that is ok with the 60-65lbs I ride. Beautiful looking newer Phils you have pictured too.

MooneyBloke

Depends on your riding. I had Phils on my first road bike, and I did two cartridge bearing (SKF) changes over their life. I was in my Twenties then and training fairly heavily.

MooneyBloke

Old race wheels?

MooneyBloke

Oooh... shiny! I like my early 2000s Campy hubs, but these are way prettier.

Robvolz 

what is the warning sticker on the hub?

bikingshearer 

"Warning - lots of people will annoy you with dumb questions about these hubs and tell you Campy is better."

sd5782 

Warning sticker cautions that using a French freewheel will ruin them. The bottom part of the sticker is a bit worn and dirty, but I believe it says English and Italian are fine. I’ve seen other posts of the sticker.

The Golden Boy 

I always forget about all the little experiences that have helped form the opinions and the preferences I have. I've gone through like a dozen different derailleurs on my Trek 720. Just to try them. One of the things I dislike is taking my hands off the bars while shifting- that temporary loss of 2 hands on the bars. At first, I didn't like bar end shifters- probably because I was reaching down and just trying to flip/push/pull the lever with my fingers. Once I got to kind of palming the lever, it made more sense to me and seemed much more controllable and more natural- but it was actually working with it. But I still prefer Command Shifters.

The other thing is that you read about other people's experiences and and preferences, likes and dislikes... I remember a long time ago- someone had posted something really glowing about a part that I had used and had a 'less than a big deal' opinion of. The more I thought of it, the part was a lower end Suntour derailleur- but like every Suntour derailleur- it worked really well- I was just being snobby because it wasn't Cyclone or something.

nlerner

I can relate! I used to shift with bar ends exclusively, mostly because I wasn’t comfortable reaching for downtube shifters. Maybe I’ve just developed better balance in my old age or something, but I now have downtube shifters on my primary commuter, and really like them!

sd5782 

I have this feeling that putting force on the bar ends to shift just has to input the steering. As a side note, this bike came with a major pie plate aluminum Suntour spoke protector for a 34 tooth freewheel. I am an advocate of dork disks, but will admit that this one is kinda out there.

The Golden Boy 

I was hoping someone had a video of this, so I just searched "shifting with bar end shifters." Not only is it the first result- but it EXACTLY addresses that issue and explains what I meant about "palming the lever"