daka

It's easy to imagine that someone who had finally acquired their dream-come-true bike would be reticent to part with it, but are there Forever bikes that folks intend to keep indefinitely for other reasons?

iab

I like what you are saying. I am currently restoring 2 bikes, a 1951 Maino that requires first gen Gran Sport and a 1930s Paglianti with a very early cambio corsa. They were in bad shape when I got them and I think because of their fit into cycling history, they should be made whole. And because of that history, you could easily make the case they are grail bikes. But as soon as they are done, I will sell them at a great loss. They are not forever bikes.

On the other hand, my personal forever bikes are nothing historical or notable, other than I like them and I'll be happy riding them the next 25 years. One is shiny. Another is pretty. Working on a third that is custom to me. Other than that, just bikes.

Fredo76

Nobody is looking for my one-of-a-kind '76 Fredo Speciale to acquire, so it can't be a grail bike.

But since I built the frame myself (with Colin Laing) in high school, it is definitely my forever bike, in a way no other could be.



1976 Fredo Speciale at Rio Grande & NM502

merziac

Yes and no, moving target, priorities change, reality sets in, buyers remorse and so much more.

Not me though, I still have almost every bike and frame I have bought and gotten since I jumped back in, grail, keeper, forever, cold dead hands and all that.

USAZorro

To me they're different things. A "grail" bike is something that you have aspired to have for some time, but which is difficult find. A "forever" bike is one that you decide you're not going to relinquish once you have it. I'll offer a personal illustration of the difference.

When I started to learn about older bicycles, I became aware that there was a British maker called Hetchins. The were famous for curled (their term was "vibrant") chain stays and seat stays on some of their models, and also for their ornate, over-the-top lugs (again on some models). The most extreme example of this was their "Magnum Opus" model. About a dozen years ago, one of these figuratively fell into my lap from "out of the blue". At first I thought it was the coolest thing ever. It was my size and being made in 1954, was one of the older and rarer examples. There was nothing wrong with the feel of the ride. It was well made and a head-turner. However, I came to feel extremely self-conscious riding it... something akin to imposter's syndrome. Anyways, I moved the "grail" bike along to someone else who cherished it as their "grail".

On the other hand, I have a couple of relatively nice, mass produced frames that there is no way in the world I will voluntarily permit to leave my possession. That Fuji Finest and that Raleigh International... they are "keepers". They just have a special feel to them which I don't think I can adequately put into words. Somewhat ironically, if i were to regain possession of the bicycle that I traded away to get the Hetchins, it would join them as a "keeper". Despite being just a hair small, that bike transformed me from a somewhat miserable climber to mediocrity.

thinktubes 

Only if you choose wisely…

John E

Having owned two Capos further down the pecking order, a top-of-the-line Sieger became a grail bike for me. I found the first one and wasn't even looking for a second, but I did buy a near-littermate Sieger frameset when the opportunity arose.

These probably qualify as "forevers," as well, because they are extremely comfortable and versatile, able to accommodate fairly wide tires, as was typical of road (and cobblestone) racing frames of 1960.

My Schwinn mountain bike didn't start out as a grail bike, because I honestly wasn't that familiar with the marque, but now that I know that the KOM-10/-20 was the top of the Schwinn mountain bike line and that only about 2000 were made in 1988 and 1989, it has become a sort of grail. It also gets a fair bit of attention when I am out riding it or parking/unparking it at a bike rack. It is definitely my "forever" go-to workhorse and trail/gravel grinder.

The Golden Boy 

That "grail" phrase is so overused. It seems like people own 10 "grail" bikes- It must mean "a bike I sorta like sometimes" or something.

No- it should mean more like USAZorro says- 'A "grail" bike is something that you have aspired to have for some time, but which is difficult find.' Going on a quest to find it. Battling through trials and tribulations, finding your way to a big grail over a castle, filled with eightscore young blondes and brunettes, all between sixteen and nineteen-and-a-half, cut off in this castle, with no one to protect us. Oooh. It is a lonely life: bathing, dressing, undressing, making exciting underwear...

You can only rail against things so much...

I've referred to my Trek 720 as a lifetime bike. This thing was the pinnacle of what tourers were- and from that point they went more burly and downscale. I had a secret plan of getting one of each of the flagship level tourers, Specialized Expedition, Miyata 1000, Fuji Touring V... After the 720 I got a Miyata 1000LT- it's very nice, it's really cool... but it's not the 720. I rebuilt my 620- which I've logged more miles on than any of my other bikes combined... it's really nice, it's beautiful... but it's not the 720.

rando_couche

IMO, a "grail" bike is not automatically a "forever" bike, but can become one. Case in point: when I was in college, the "cool" bike shop in town carried, among other things, Jack Taylor frames. Soon as I saw one, I knew I had to have one. Just so amazingly classy! But never had the chance to ride one. Fast forward almost 50 years. A darned near "time capsule" 1978 (coincidently in my college years) JT Tour of Britain in (almost) my size pops up in the FB marketplace at a very reasonable price. So of course I bought it. After swapping out the "period correct" componentry for "almost period correct" stuff far more compatible with my aging physique, I started riding it. HOLY S**T!! IT WAS WORTH THE 50 YEAR WAIT!! I will NEVER sell this bike unless I become physically unable to ride. My "grail" bike has become a "forever" bike.

Scott Peterson
Newport OR

AdventureManCO 

I'll go even a step further and say that it is something which cannot be attained. People often confuse the term 'grail' with 'quest' (funny - I wrote this without completely seeing that you mentioned 'quest' as well). A 'quest' item is that which you are hunting for, or may have hunted for, for a long time. A grail is legendary. So rare as to never been seen, and really only exist in one's consciousness. Take Confentes for example. Mario made over 100 of them. None of them are a 'grail'. There is no such thing as a grail bike, because to my knowledge, there is none that is both so rare and also desirable as to be universally considered 'the one'. And if there was, none of us would have it, for sure.

abdon 

Nope.

I like to ride different bikes. I have bought rather expensive ones, enjoy them for a while, and then released them back to the wild. After many years I still miss a Merlin Extralight in Dura Ace 7800, that bike was a dream to ride. Another dream bike for me would be a Colnago Master Extralight with the crimped tubbing. I'll probably catch and release that one as well.

Some bikes that are lesser bikes to those two are pretty much forever bikes for me, like my '71 paramount and Trek 720

RiddleOfSteel

I will echo the statements of others. We aspire to the grail bike, and they can indeed be/become forever bikes, but forever bikes find us. I have had the absolute privilege of owning a number of grail bikes, but my forever bike--a grail bike in its own right, for many people--found me. It was an unassuming yet opportunistic purchase, but I wasn't immediately head-over-heels about it, even if I did notice its specialness. I almost decided to sell it, but didn't, and am eternally grateful I didn't.

70sSanO

I think when someone finally finds “that” special grail bike they have been searching for, it probably becomes a forever bike.

Likewise, when a bike happens to be a daily rider for decades and will be kept forever, it may, by default, be a grail bike even if its owner would not have considered it as such.

Situations where the “I own this” vs “I ride that” might blur which one is the true grail.

John

theblackbullet

For me, all of my grail bikes are or would be forever bikes, but not all forever bikes are grail bikes. It really comes down to how hard it would be to replace them .

RustyJames 

To me, there is no such thing as a ‘forever’ bike. I have a couple that aren’t worth a lot of money and have special meaning to me but I could let them go.

I also have a few ‘grail’ bikes but if someone wanted one bad enough I would let those go since it is likely they will go to someone who would also cherish them.

Eventually there is some sort of tipping point. The frame is too racey, it doesn’t fit, it’s collecting dust, the value is too significant to ignore, etc. It went from someones idea of ‘forever’ or ‘grail’ to being set free for someone else to enjoy which is how I acquired them.

My 2 cents….

The Golden Boy 

If there's something wrong with it- it's not a 'grail' now is it?

Going back to how one defines "grail." Is it "the one" or "a bike I sorta like, sometimes, maybe?"

smd4

I would never sell my grail bike, so yes, to me they are the same thing.

USAZorro

You mean like the Major Taylor bike that Eddy Merckx used as his winter trainer when he was a young teen?

I do realize that I "cheapened" the meaning a bit with my explanation, but as this thread shows, arriving at a consensus definition is like herding cats across seven dimensions. Frankly, if someone says they have possession of a grail bike, I'll accept it. If they say they have two, I'll reluctantly nod. If they say they've had three or more, I'll raise my eyebrow and presume they like to define things differently from the dictionary.

abicyclebum

I have a barn full of great forever bikes, that my kids will have to deal with when I am gone. I have no grail bikes,so far they have all been priced way above my means.

Trav1s

Potentially but not necessarily. Great conversation BTW

The Golden Boy 

I mean, really, the grail is a cup... and a cup is not a bike. So a bike cannot be a grail. Unless it's melted down and fashioned into a cup. Or maybe the tubes sealed off and filled with liquid for to be used as a cup... but that's really far far off from the intent.

There's something to be said about the search for the ideal.

I asked this several years ago and got the weirdest pushback:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ant-grail.html

smd4

"The" grail may be a cup; but in general, as defined, it is also "a thing that is eagerly pursued or sought after." It's a metaphor. Presumably, something pursued or sought after can also be obtained.

The Golden Boy 

But the literal definition is the 'cup' one- and since there's people going hog wild with their interpretation of literal definitions- and it's defined anywhere from a cup, to mythological, to unattainable, to pursuable but attainable to "something I sorta like sometimes maybe. This week. And have 30 of them in my garage."

That being said- in relation to this bicycle hobby- I ascribe to what I interpret to be close to your view- something real, something very special, something attainable, but not spectacularly easy to get a hold of.

That being said- if it doesn't fit, or you don't like it, or it's the wrong color, or it's not right for you... it's not a grail.

abdon 

I take it metaphors went the way of the rotary dial phone? People are not familiar with them anymore?

I have sold Grail bikes. My forever bikes may or may not be labeled a Grail bike, primarily they are my workhorse bikes.

USAZorro

Hey. Some of us just get better at being curmudgeonly and deliberately, hair-splitty difficult with each passing day. Where I live, kids on my lawn are not a "thing", and I recognize that constantly correcting "there", "their", "they're", "your", and "you're" gets quite old and insufficiently stimulating after a few times.