mollusk

Sorry, but "no".

But if you are ever in the vicinity just send me a PM and I can whip something up.

mollusk

Making posole this afternoon. A good rainy afternoon activity as it takes forever.

I had just enough chile de arbol and more than enough anchos for making fresh chili sauce so no trip to the Latin market was required.

bostongarden

Wife just through out a perfectly good 1/8 full bag of lime-cilantro chips. I wanted those chips, but, I guess my eating status is the better for her action.

tetonrider

so, @Andy STi will appreciate this, as he knows i love my ice cream.

i've been working hard -- really hard -- over a 5-year period to change my body composition. i've been getting a DEXA scan once per year (gold standard, shows you body fat % for every region of your body via x-ray) to measure my progress.

the lowest number i've ever seen was mid 8's, and even when i looked in the mirror and thought i had pretty much nothing to lose i was ~14%. (made me realize that what most people think of as 10% is nowhere near 10%!)

during the journey, i've learned a bunch about the finer points of losing weight while maintaining or increasing performance. dropping weight is not as hard as dropping weight without sacrificing power. i did lots of pre-, intra- and post-ride nutrition. recovery days presented some of the biggest challenges for me. i talked to many so-called sports nutritionists along the way and found it surprising how few of them understood the demands of what we do as bike racers. yeah.....cutting carbs isn't going to cut it.

i REALLY stepped things up in the late july -> early september timeframe and went in for a DEXA afterwards. i was shocked by the result and incredibly proud of the hard work. to put it in perspective, i've worked as hard on my nutrition as my on-the-bike training, which is to say very hard.

so...the part @Andy STi might like: i gained 10# in a trip where i ate/drank my way through NYC. my wife loves it!

getting to 5% was pretty tough. along the way i still ate ice cream with my boy, some late-night boxes of cereal, etc., and i generally didn't *deprive* myself. however, it made me have an incredible respect for those who are PAID to maintain this kind of level (pro cyclist, model or whatever) where you simply cannot slip. as "just an amateur", i was free to have that ice cream sundae whenever i felt like it.

i'm a little heavier than i was just a few weeks ago and can feel it (planned), but like hitting a peak for one's FTP, once you've hit a # before it is far easier to get back to it than to get there the first time. at least that's what i tell myself now.


thanks for listening. outside of family and work, the changes i've made over 5+ years (including dropping 50#...used to be an ice hockey defenseman!) are one of the things i'm most proud of.

Andy STi

We have a DEXA for body comp at work. I need to get it done

furiousferret

My racing weight is 150-154....and over the past few weeks I've been eating too much and tipped the scales at 162. Cleaned up my diet and within a week was back down to 153. Detoxed off the sugary stuff all week. Had a pre ride cake pop and it almost made me sick.

tetonrider

it's a pretty cruel mistress.

when i got my first one, i'd already lost about 35# (lots of upper body muscle). i WISH i had a DEXA from just prior to that time. i clearly remember looking in the mirror and thinking maybe i could cut a pound or two, but not much. i knew i HAD to be ~10% BF.

what's fascinating to me about the DEXA is that it reports lean tissue by region. that first test told me i was ~14% (which is low, but not what i was expecting) -- and something like 22% BF in the abdomen. now THAT was a shock. they've found that the ratio of android:gynoid (basically belly vs butt/hips) fat is correlated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease when it is over 1.00. i was 1.14 for my first one and got down to 0.70 in the most recent one.

think of a typical guy with a beer gut (unhealthy) vs, say, a female with hips (healthy).

in that journey from 14.5 to 5.3, i actually gained muscle (without ever touching weights) and lost 6.4 kilos of fat. abdomen went from 21.3 to 5.6% BF.

learned a ton along the way.

DEFINITELY get one if it is easily available. i get one once a year--when i'm traveling through a particular city ~5h away. they wind up doing them for free.

TMonk

Nice, I love posole, and most things tomatillo based.

TMonk

That's some pretty big fluctuation right there.

My racing weight is in the same range, although I usually weigh closer to 160, cause I eat like a fat kid and don't train enough to burn it all off during most of the year. I've been starting to pick up the volume (started base a couple weeks ago) and I'm already starting to get a little leaner.

How tall are you? I'm 5'9.5". I also work out my upper body a fair bit, I like to be overall healthy and strong. I have a strong chest for a dude my size, if I was to start lifting again I could get up to working out with sets of 10 with my bodyweight (benchpress) within a 4-6 weeks. For now I just have a circuit (4x) that consists of: planks, pushups, pullups, tri-dips.

furiousferret

I'm 5'8"....been avoiding upper body stuff but lifted for years and have a bit of extra bulk. When I hit around 151 it starts affecting my power, but I think I can get down to 148...just not sure if its worthwhile.

fwiw, I have a weird stomach; I can outeat most people and drop about 8000-10000 calories in a day. Last Friday I probably dropped about 6,000 which helped with the fluctuation.

tetonrider

not picking on you but i'm responding to your post because you brought it up. i've noticed many people say this kind of thing over the years.

typically (maybe not you) they do something extreme, like long rides with no food during the season, then they ride/race like $hit and conclude they ride better when a bit heavier. my observation is this is almost never really TRUE--if they either (a) did the weight loss in an intelligent (i.e. SLOW manner during the season) or (b) gave their body enough time to adapt if they DID do something drastic, they would almost always be faster and more efficient on the bike.

until you're truly around 4, 5%, most of us are nowhere near the point where losing weight does not make a difference.

i'm assuming that most of us here race RRs at some point and either have to go uphill (w/kg), turn (accelerate out of corners) or ride in the heat (leaner = dump heat more effectively).

not sure what "drop 8000-10000 calories in a day" means, but based on what you posted it's probably hydration levels that are fluctuating (could be related to your hydration and/or water retention...possibly due to sodium and/or water retention due to carbs/glycogen).

if you see large fluctuations pre- and post-rides, definitely look to what you are eating and how you are hydrating during a ride.

furiousferret

@tetonrider fair enough, right now I am probably around 12%; so yeah according to you I could get down quite a bit more; 145 maybe? Diet for me is definitely a problem. I just went on a sugar / sweets detox so hopefully that will help....I normally eat clean but during rides I tend to junk out on the sweets.

I'm actually racing a few crits these next few months and the next RR with a climb is UCLA or Boulevard and late January. Being at 145 would definitely benefit me, especially since most Masters around here aren't that light. Some of the top tier guys are but the 4/5 guys are usually linebackers.

Drop 8000-10000 calories means I have an expansive stomach, and have gone of binge days where I could eat that much. Even at my weight, the stomach just balloons out so I can go crazy on portions.

tetonrider

if working with you on this to see where you could realistically take it (what is theoretically possible vs what you might actually want to attain/maintain) i'd want to know a bunch more about you, but at your height and weight, low 130s is not out of the question....for someone motivated and focused on cycling.

now, you and many others will probably say that isn't possible, or not-for-my-body-type.....but it actually is.

i'm not skeptical of you saying you are at 12%, but based on the #s you quoted and some habits my guess is a DEXA might show you at 15+. the good news with a high reading is there is more opportunity.


i honestly don't know what this means and i read it a few times. sorry--i'm probably being dense. 10,000 calories is pretty massive intake. stomachs extend; that's what they're meant to do.

TheKillerPenguin

I'll say that while I'm pretty dang skinny I did let myself gain a kilo, because staying as light as I was was driving me insane. The amount of meal planning was absurd, even my coach was like eat a dang chocolate croissant from time to time. I can understand why guys allow themselves to gain a few pounds in the off season, the amount of dedication required to look like Froome sucks.

tetonrider

there's a mental and physical component to it. not letting oneself go TOO far means less work to do when the next racing season begins.

any 'diet' (unless it is for a very specific, time-delimited goal) that requires the level of deprivation you describe is pretty much untenable in the long-term. a small triumph for me was figuring out how to incorporate ice cream and some other treats to keep me sane (i'm an amateur athlete, after all) while still hitting that 5% #. that was the real trick.

misterwaterfall

Consider me Jelly. I max out at about 2k in a sitting and that leaves me full and hurting for quite a while afterwards. I think I could do maybe 5-6k in a day if I was trying(assuming decent whole foods). And I'm sitting at about 86kg right now, lame.

gsteinb

perhaps a non eating status thread? right now sitting contemplating the empty pit that is my stomach.

tetonrider

if you're going to do 8-10k in a day, think "empty calories".

otherwise....go ahead and try to eat 10,000 calories of veggies.

hack

Ugh ... all you guys and your low body fat %'s. I'm probably in the 15-20% range (~185 lbs), but actually going to try to eat well this winter in an effort to shed a few fat pounds.

About three years ago when weight lifting instead of bike riding, I was at 220 and 9% (based on dunk test). I haven't lifted a weight for real in at least two years (can't use any of my original kits). Going to add some weight lifting back in this winter, too.

TheKillerPenguin

For sure. I keep myself close enough to rock bottom that I know I can hit it by putting in a block of high volume. It takes a lot of effort to actually keep from losing weight, I weigh myself at night to make sure I weigh above a certain amount or else I squeeze in more food.

misterwaterfall

Unless I'm drinking them, I still don't think I could do that. I had a cheat meal of a Turkey burger and fries and planned to eat a pint of coconut milk ice cream to finish it off(pint was ~700 calories) and couldn't finish it. Somehow I'm still the biggest dude at every race though so I guess I'll stick to what I'm doing.

Maybe I should do a cheat day video or veggies like they do on youtube. Instead of 25,000 calories of garbage, I'll try to eat 8k of natural stuff

tetonrider

i'm a natural skeptic--and informed by what i learned in years of DEXA testing....but while hydrostatic testing is pretty good on average, it can be off by up to 6% in an individual. i was amazed by that, as lots of people believe there is no way it can be off ("you know your weight and you know the displacement....how could it be wrong???").

220 & 9% raises an eyebrow for me, though it could be true.

even if it is true, depending on how you lost the weight you could be higher -or- lower BF% right now. eating well is 1 step. eating the right amount is another. for a long time i over-ate awesome foods...but it was still overeating.

furiousferret

I have skinfold calipers and test with those. I typically use this site: Body Fat Calculator and do at least 2 of the tests. Right now it puts me around 11.5% which is 'close'. The problem with the calipers though is if you are off even just a few millimeters, that can double or half you reading.

I would do a dexa scan if there's one at a reasonable price (say under $50) the closest one here at Loma Linda University is $150.

Its also real easy to tell when I gain because I don't have what you call 'cool guy' fat....that fat where you are broad chested and it looks like you are just an off season NFL Lineman. I just look pregnant.

Enthalpic

Please be clear, there is a big difference between percent and percentage points. Let's say the true value is 10% B.F. - is it 10.6% or 16% as max error?

tetonrider

the latter.

it's crazy, i know. kind of blows away the utility of the test--for an individual. to add further insult, it doesn't track well over time. you're smarter than me, so you can probably understand the technical details better than i do.