passing school buses
#26
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mr-bill and livedarkloin will you both represent me for free if I get a ticket for passing a school bus? Seeing you are both lawyers and feel that it is legal to pass.
#27
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Where did I say I was a lawyer?
But *YOU* don't have to be a lawyer. If you are passionate about this dire advocacy and safety issue, contact your state rep. You can create a bill "by request" to right this grave wrong that people on bicycles don't have to stop for school busses in our commonwealth.
Good luck!
(I reserve my energy for matters that, er, matter.)
-mr. bill
But *YOU* don't have to be a lawyer. If you are passionate about this dire advocacy and safety issue, contact your state rep. You can create a bill "by request" to right this grave wrong that people on bicycles don't have to stop for school busses in our commonwealth.
Good luck!
(I reserve my energy for matters that, er, matter.)
-mr. bill
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I used to have a bus on my commute that picked up children with disabilities*. The driver - not being a jerk, just following protocol - would drive up and deploy the bus' Stop sign. They would then walk to the door of the home and help the mother get the child down the walk, and then deploy the bus' wheelchair lift. Then the driver would lift the child into the bus, position the child and secure the wheelchair in the bus. Then the driver would stow the wheelchair lift, close the door and pull away from the curb as they turned off and retracted the Stop sign.
Yeah, took several minutes.
I'd ride up, hop off the bike, walk past (legal here in Parts Unknown) and remount.
*I looked up acceptable wording on this.
Yeah, took several minutes.
I'd ride up, hop off the bike, walk past (legal here in Parts Unknown) and remount.
*I looked up acceptable wording on this.
Likes For tcs:
#29
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Yep - always okay for a cyclist to transform into a pedestrian and do whatever the hell seems appropriate. By ‘always’ I mean almost always.
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#31
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I don't "feel", I can read a MA statute.
And no, I'm not licensed in MA. It's illegal in the state I practice in.
#32
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Sigh. I guess my reply was poorly drafted.
The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)
Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)
All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.
p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?
-mr. bill
The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)
Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)
All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.
p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?
-mr. bill
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p.s. The phrase "well crafted FRAP" makes me laugh out loud. Yeah, I won't quit my day job. Oh wait....
-mr. bill
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 03-24-22 at 06:22 PM.
#34
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Sigh. I guess my reply was poorly drafted.
The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)
Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)
All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.
p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?
-mr. bill
The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)
Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)
All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.
p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?
-mr. bill
I think we reached consensus on drafting nightmare that works ok, and that neither of us intended to pass the stopped school bus anyway. I like the get off the bike and walk it suggestion and am amused that it never occurred to me being as constitutionally adverse to walking my bike as I am..
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Just for the record, I never disagreed with your reading of the law. I wasn't aware of that exception, and I almost cracked up when I saw the text of the statute.
I think we reached consensus on drafting nightmare that works ok, and that neither of us intended to pass the stopped school bus anyway. I like the get off the bike and walk it suggestion and am amused that it never occurred to me being as constitutionally adverse to walking my bike as I am..
I think we reached consensus on drafting nightmare that works ok, and that neither of us intended to pass the stopped school bus anyway. I like the get off the bike and walk it suggestion and am amused that it never occurred to me being as constitutionally adverse to walking my bike as I am..
(In fairness, mere mortals can also misread law. See, oh, no, won't go there, P&R exile comment.)
-mr. bill
#36
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This discussion got me thinking about bikes stopping, or not stopping for school busses with their stop sign deployed in states that have the “Idaho Stop Law.” The Idaho version of the law doesn’t mention school busses with stop signs deployed. But does say it should be safely done.
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statut...h7/sect49-720/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
Some say the stop sign was never intended for bicycles
https://www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5691098...signs-and-ride
Dan
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statut...h7/sect49-720/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
Some say the stop sign was never intended for bicycles
https://www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5691098...signs-and-ride
Dan
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Pendants?
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#40
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I treat stop signs like yield signs, red lights like stop signs, and school buses with the same courtesy I expect drivers to show me and my kid.
#41
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I’ve been informed that bicycles are exempt from having to stop for a stopped school bus, but I haven’t seen it in print.
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Varies by state. I checked the NY statutes and I think you are correct in NY. Per NY law, a bicycle is not a vehicle, and the no passing law applies to drivers of vehicles.
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I would think that there should at least be a law requiring cyclists to slow way down when passing buses...seeing as how many pedestrians have been hit by speeding cyclists on MUPs and in crosswalks. Maybe one day I'll get around to checking my own state law on this topic, I do know the laws, in general, but never remember seeing anything about stopping for school buses. I always stop, so whatever the law says I know I'm not outside the law.
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I would think that there should at least be a law requiring cyclists to slow way down when passing buses...seeing as how many pedestrians have been hit by speeding cyclists on MUPs and in crosswalks. Maybe one day I'll get around to checking my own state law on this topic, I do know the laws, in general, but never remember seeing anything about stopping for school buses. I always stop, so whatever the law says I know I'm not outside the law.
That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.
P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—
(1) Every person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter, except as to special regulations in this chapter, and except as to provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.
(1) Every person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter, except as to special regulations in this chapter, and except as to provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.
Last edited by work4bike; 04-10-22 at 06:30 AM.
#45
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Of course this post bugged me, so I re-read my state laws concerning cyclists, to see if they say anything about bikes approaching school buses and there is no Special Regulations, that specifically address that particular scenario. However, they do open with this statement.
That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.
P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.
P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
The Florida stop for the bus statute applies to "vehicles", so yes you are obligated to stop for the bus if you're on a bike in the street. I guess you could legally pass on the sidewalk.
My state defines bicycles as vehicles and prohibits vehicles from sidewalks.
#46
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Curious, does your state allow kids of a certain age to ride on the sidewalk?
This is kind of an interesting quick look at various state laws concerning bikes on sidewalks....but I don't know how up to date it is
https://bikefinest.com/is-it-illegal...and%20Maryland.
.
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That young female driver should be not only fined but be required to attend some mandatory driver training... which apparently she either never got or forgot too quickly.
#48
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As a cyclist... I would stop for the stopped school bus, if for no other reason than to set an example for all the kids that may be watching from the bus.
Of course the flip side is that as a cyclist, and observer of traffic... I try to avoid routes that have school buses.
Of course the flip side is that as a cyclist, and observer of traffic... I try to avoid routes that have school buses.
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As a bike, yeah, I'd stop for sure! Or car.
The thing is, the penalties are still so light people don't seem to care. I commute past a middle school. There's a crossing guard and a 25mph school zone speed limit. I have seen parents headed to carpool at THAT school with their kids fly through the school zone at easily 50mph. When you don't GAF about the children at your own school versus any speeding/fine. The fine isn't steep enough.
I love how NYC got so fed up with joyriding 4-wheelers and dirtbikes they started crushing them on the spot, but it's OK to speed thru a school zone or past a stopped school bus and risk murdering children. Not speaking of NYC there for the school zone, just presenting a more "rapid and extreme" penalty.
The penalties have to get steeper. I'd say passing a stopped bus or speeding in a school zone, first offense.........weekender in the country jail and lose license for a month. That'll make it stop.
The thing is, the penalties are still so light people don't seem to care. I commute past a middle school. There's a crossing guard and a 25mph school zone speed limit. I have seen parents headed to carpool at THAT school with their kids fly through the school zone at easily 50mph. When you don't GAF about the children at your own school versus any speeding/fine. The fine isn't steep enough.
I love how NYC got so fed up with joyriding 4-wheelers and dirtbikes they started crushing them on the spot, but it's OK to speed thru a school zone or past a stopped school bus and risk murdering children. Not speaking of NYC there for the school zone, just presenting a more "rapid and extreme" penalty.
The penalties have to get steeper. I'd say passing a stopped bus or speeding in a school zone, first offense.........weekender in the country jail and lose license for a month. That'll make it stop.
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I have two school zones I pass every day in the morning with lights flashing that signal to slow down from 45-mph to 20-mph. I always take the lane, since I can maintain the speed limit, and if I see a car, in my mirror, going at a speed fast enough to pass me at a significant rate, I take that lane, just to piss him off.
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