Digital_Cowboy

That same hypothetical kid could also grab the bike while it is locked up outside and injure themselves. So the liability is still there. And as I've said, you'd be surprised at how many businesses not only allow cyclists to bring their bikes inside but instruct them to do so.

Another place that I take my bike inside is at my bank, even though they have a short two maybe three wave "sine wave" type of bike rack very close to the front door. The problem that I have with those style of racks is that they provide little in the way of actual support for one's bike and they're way too easy to tip over.

Refro

I really love these discussions. It could be that I'm over generalizing. It seems to me you all love the dutch bike culture (bikepaths, bikes, attitude etc) but living in the Netherlands I don't see anybody taking their bikes inside stores. I have never thought of that anyone on the world was doing it until I read it on this site. Most stores over here only have a simple rack so nothing fancy about it. Even at my LBS I mostly leave the bike in front of the store discuss the work to be done with him and give him the key. The bike I use for commuting and errands is a >2000 euro bike (rohloff, hs33, son, tubus) but with a good lock (axa defender with chain, sometimes combined with a abus bordo) I feel confident leaving it locked to the rack outside.

In your opinion should it also be OK to bring in a scooter or a motorbike? They also have two wheels are not to big an can be very expensive.

SlimRider

Perhaps Americans are more paranoid about losing their bikes due to our outrageously rampant theft rate.

Refro

Do you have numbers on this?Numbers on stolen bikes stolen in the Netherlands range from 548.000 to 897.000 (according to https://www.verkeerskunde.nl/cijfers-...jk.23454.lynkx or https://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-feiten...tsen-cijfers-2). I don't know how it was measured and how accurate the numbers are.

SlimRider

If your theft rate in anyway parallels ours, then you guys are unimaginably larcenous, and can't be trusted!

botto 

at the moment: anti everything.



spend a stoned weekend there once?





those are tourist's bikes.

Mark Stone

Your bank maybe - once I took my bicycle into the bank and they made quite a scene about it. I had a bank employee and a couple of security guards "surrounding" me in just a couple of seconds! Needless to say I closed my accounts there, but it looks like they didn't miss my $30.00 balance because here 20 years later they're still in business.

DX-MAN

Banks, lol.

The last bank I dealt with had (still has, btw) several branches around town; depending on my business for the day, I'd go to one of any of them. One, closest to my home, is drive-up only, and they give me no grief at all. The next-closest one will accept me in the drive-up, or gladly allow my bike in the vestibule. But the 'main', downtown branch refused to serve me at the drive-up -- but they did nicely say I could bring my bike inside. Nice as they were, I never went back, because their ideology about the drive-up is wrong. (No more unsafe for a bike than for another car, or a ped at a walk-up, which was also in the traffic lane....)

AlmostTrick

Good point. Cars left in inappropriate places are legally moved by property owners all the time. And while notification may be posted in area's that commonly see parking infractions, I doubt it is posted nor even required to be in every possible area you're not allowed to park.

Doohickie

I wouldn't leave a bike unattended and unlocked. If I feel the need to bring it in, I'll use it as a shopping cart if it's one of my bikes with a basket. Just put the items in the basket as I'm shopping. The checkout aisles at my local Albertson's are wide enough to accommodate bringing a bike through. I've run into the store manager once or twice with my bike in tow and she never said a word.

danlikes

Missing the point totally here. You took the bike into the store so it would be safe. I store employee moved it. Had a thief moved it your post would be a little bit sadder I think.

1st responsibility is on you, Lock it up or get a beater for running errands with. As a cyclist you are responsible for presenting an image of cyclist for us all. Throwing a hissy fit rather than working with the stores representative for a mutually acceptable resolution does not present a good picture. Maybe working with the stores employees would end with getting a parking area for bicyclist assigned.

2nd negotiations with the store. Promoting a cooperative attitude and a market share of cyclist that would be drawn to a cyclist friendly establishment might get you more accommodations. You could try the argument that much like the concealed carry firearms laws in some states, if a business wishes to restrict firearms from there establishment then they are assuming responsibility for your safety and property. Perhaps presenting an argument along those lines that with no bicycle rack and no accommodations made for cyclist the store is by default excepting responsibility for damage or loss to your bicycle.

But then I see signs that say, right to refuse business and not responsible for loss all the time.

So 3rd if the store can careless and does not want to market to cyclist then you can chose to do business with an establishment that does.

Finally if your antagonistic and expect the store to allow carte blanche for you well that is a bit narcissistic.

Pedaleur

Pretty sure you're the one who should be embarrassed if you act like this.

Mark Stone

Don't take the posts from DX-MAN too seriously - he likes to stir things up a bit just for the sake of doing it

alan s 

Bring your bike into the store and lock it to something solid like a column.

Problem solved.

If they don't like it, they'll come and find you, rather than trying to move your bike.

Transformer

Acting like an entitled jerk, then posting on the internet about "beating the living ****" out of people is a sure way to build respect for the cycling community.

Santaria

Perhaps the most mature thing would have been to bring a lock and secure your bike outside, followed with the possibility that you forgot your lock or had too many accessories to feel comfortable with the bike being left outside. At that point, you should have first gone to a pawn shop and picked up an appropriately worthless bike. Then you could take both bikes to your home, dropping off the bike you purchased with the anticipation of riding, but can not ride because its too nice for obvious tasks like riding, light shopping or general appreciation. At this stage, you take the bike you did not want, but had to purchase and ride that one to the store, where you would lock it up outside with a $100 lock and 100 lb. chain to appease society by meeting the criteria required. That criteria being you're riding a bike that makes people feel comfortable that you, someone beneath them, are on a bike they deem appreciable to your class and that you've locked it up outside like a good chap. Then when you came out and the employee who was jaded about his working situation or home life stole it, you could proceed to beat the living crap out of him with the 100 lb. chain he refused to take when he cut your lock, stealing the bike you had to purchase to make this thread acceptable to everybody else.

All while not smoking or in any way offending the environment, economy, minorities, majorities, the unemployed, the overwhelmingly employed or fish.

recumbenttoad

Have you ever had a bike stolen? It changes your perspective quite a bit. Especially when it leaves you stranded.

Where I work I encourage cyclists to bring their bikes into the store for safety. I guess it all depends on how much you value certain customers on what your policies are.

contango 

Huh? Does this apply only to cyclists? If someone cuts me up in traffic while I'm driving and I give them the finger do I get a lecture on how I'm responsible for presenting an image of motorists, or drivers of whatever car I happen to own at the time? If someone walks into me while I'm shopping and I tell them angrily to look where they are going do I get a lecture on presenting an image of pedestrians, or shoppers, or men in general?

I think if someone just took my bike away without even attempting to talk to me first I'd be angry. If the OP had been approached by staff who asked him not to take the bike inside and he threw a hissy fit that would be a different thing entirely.

I can't see how you'd make this stick any more than expecting them to take responsibility for your car if you parked it to shop there. And if the shop considers the cycling community to be sufficiently small as to be inconsequential they'll just ignore the concern anyway.

This is the key to it. Let the manager (and his manager, if it's a chain) know that if they won't provide a facility for you then you won't shop there any more. Saying how indignant you are about something but continuing to shop there tells them you're just blowing smoke.

There's a world of difference between turning up with a bad attitude and getting angry when someone just takes what is yours without even attempting to locate you or ask you to move it first.

Seattle Forrest

If you park your car in the wrong place, like blocking somebody's driveway, somebody else will tow it away, and you'll spend a lot of money to get your car back. Think of leaving your bike in somebody's store without telling them about it first as an analogy.

When I want to take my bike into a store or restaurant, I either explicitly ask first, or I make myself very conspicuous, like walking past somebody in a uniform with the bike, and politely making eye contact; if they don't stop me, they've granted implicit permission. I never walk around a store walking my bike (except REI), but I've been known to ask a manager if I can leave it somewhere that it will be out of sight and protected, for a few minutes while I purchase a few items. Asking for permission is a good thing, and reminding them that I came to part with some money usually puts them in a mood to say yes.

Very occasionally somebody will say no. They don't want a bike in their establishment, for whatever reason. You have to respect that, and bring your money elsewhere.

Hopefully the OP was being dramatic about beating the store employee down for moving his bike, but, obviously, going to jail isn't going to improve your life in any way, and that's ignoring the morality of the situation.

Paragraphs are one of the best inventions ever. The OP finishes with a complaint about headaches ... won't somebody please think of the [strike]children[/strike] readers!

chandltp

+1 Just because it was left it in the store doesn't magically make it safe, as evidenced by someone moving it. My bikes are safer outside locked up than inside unlocked (assuming no one is watching it).

I've asked to bring it in at a couple of places where the employees are at a counter and can see the bike and know it belongs to me. Mostly so I don't have to go out to a snow covered bike and there isn't a good spot to lock it. It would be pretty easy for someone to walk out with it, but unlikely.

I live in a low theft area and I don't take anything off my bike when I park it. If I have to take stuff off the bike, I don't want to leave the bike.

CACycling

Except there are clearly established rules and laws to cover parking situations with motor vehicles including the requirement to post rules at private property when it is a location where the owner invites the public to park. If the bike in the store was left in a location that was unsafe for other customers, blocked other's access or was in violation of posted rules, then I'd agree moving it might be acceptable (but by moving it they took responsibility for its safety just as a towing company is responsible for the car they tow away so putting it outside without securing it would most likely make them liable for it if it were stolen).

I probably would have gone to the location where I left the bike and, seeing it was gone, called the police to file a stolen bike report within earshot of the staff.

Mark Stone

After a little time going through the drive-through at a different bank, I got to know the teller that would let me do a transaction from the bicycle and those tellers that wouldn't. I would ride in and scan the window for "my" teller, and then ride into her pull-thru. There were signs "Motorized Vehicles Only" but for some reason she let me slide. The other tellers obviously knew what she and I were up to, but nobody told the boss, I guess -

mtbikerinpa

I work as a cashier in Kmart and I bike to work most days. The management told me to park the bike(as an employee) in the breakroom. Secured and secluded with good people. Nobody gives me a second look walking all the way through the store. Even as a plain clothes customer I walk through the store holding the handlebar stem. Takes up virtually the same volume as a cart but more manuverable. No real risk on thier part if you aren't riding it but holding it. To park it in the registers is not only discourteous in case they get in a rush and need to activate a regester(happens a lot), but it is also risky between front of the store and any high traffic area to just leave it where people with carts will hit it. My store deals with a lot of elderly shoppers and needless to say the precision of the driving is not high...

If it is a small store, a lot of the time there is a window or an interior area near the entrance, but only in smalltownism areas. Lock trumps most, but hand always wins where it can work.

yep202

Ok in my post, ( the very first one) I said "where is my bike?" How was I being a jerk really. All I did after he told me where it was was set what I had wanted to buy on the nearest self walked over to my bike and rode off. I didn't say anything to anyone until I called the next day. Even then I wasn't being a jerk. Yeah you cold tell I was pissed by.the way I said " where is my bike??" But big deal. Somewhere in this thread something got messed up and now your thinking I was acting uncivilized. The first thing I thought of after he told me where my bike was was the image I'm leaving on the people watching me. Ok so wanting to beat the crap out of the guy was maybe a bit too much. I'll admit. So when I called this is what happened. I talked to a manager she had asked if I knew his name which I didn't but I gave a discrption*** of wagging he looked like. If she does have the.right person the have cameras. So she had said she was sorry and also said she could belive one of her employees would do that. I said " I belive the.situation could have been handed better then what it was. She agreed. End of conversion. I could of been a jerk and got into it with her but as seeing as this is a a bit of my fault I thought otherwise. As far as buying a lock yeah ill get one. But before I do that ill ask marsh if its ok to bring my bike in. Again tho in the.store I was.acting civilized. Thank you for reading.

recumbenttoad

I think you're barking at the wrong guy. I'm on your side.