GhostRider62

Interesting topic. I've noticed older family members get skinny fat and then when they have an illness or injury, they lack the reserves to recover. I've read that VO2 max is the largest predictor of all cause mortality for older people.

I am pretty sure I need to lose weight. SHould I get a DEXA scan? How do I know if I am too heavy?

I'm 6'3'' and 208 lbs. I have never been so heavy. My skinfold calipers say I am 13% but I don't believe them. The sum of the three folds is 27mm and about 8 years ago, the folds were 25mm and I weighted 185 lbs. My 5 minute power is now better and I climb short (under 5 minute) hills better but I used to climb longer hills better. My Doctor is really fat, has diabetes, asthma, and other inflammatory issues and almost laughs if I ask a question related to good health. I think I am probably 20% fat. Is that too much. Are there doctors who specialize in this sort of thing?

I found a PT clinic that does DEXA and the lady who runs the scan is also a Dietician. The scan is $250 with a nutritiional consult. Worth it????

50PlusCycling

Seniors are cheap, for the most part, which is why they were eating salad and crackers for lunch. My mom used to work in a restaurant which had a senior’s fried chicken dinner every Wednesday, it was a large meal and cheap. At 4pm, there was a line of old people going out the door and around the restaurant.

GhostRider62

Muscle mass correlates with VO2 max, older people can improve with training

https://eurapa.biomedcentral.com/art...200%20ml%2Fmin)

What seems more interesting is merely going from low fitness to average or high averages gets the most bang for the buck.

https://peterattiamd.com/how-does-vo...ith-longevity/

I don't have a reference showing the statistical significance of lean body mass to VO2 max (it is well known and easily verified), but to me the question is how to maintain lean body mass and not merely fat loss. And, as I get older, should I focus more on maintain muscle or losing fat because diets can be catabolic. That was one reason I gave up Keto and I am confident my muscle mass has increased. I used to eat two salads a day. One huge one at the Merck or Pfizer dining room and then a big one at dinner with lean protein. Low carb all day. I need to learn more

fat biker

Wow!
Dr. Layne does a thorough job of skewering Dr. Fung.
Thank you for posting this.

fat biker

wolfchild

There is no evidence that fasting is any more effective than balanced diet and portion control. ..Fasting won't improve athletic performance, fasting will catabolize muscle, deplete energy reserves and make a person weak and frail.

Calsun

Weight and height are generalized and someone with a higher percentage of muscle tissue willl weigh more. Waist and belly size are the key determinents and not BMI and this is in the process of being changed.

Avoiding red meat and dairy will be healthier for your heart and your intestinal tract. The incidence of colon cancer directly correlates to red meat consumption in countries. In the past chicken and fish and in particular salmon were healthy to eat but that is no longer the case with our industrial meat factories. The Omega 6 level is very high in poultry and in farmed salmon and most fish is contaminated with micro plastics that leach chemicals into our bodies. We are exposed to both endocrine distruptors and our gut flora is severely altered with the ingestion of glyphosates in our food (expecially any that contain wheat or soy or canola). Mothers' milk now contains PFAS so even infants are now being born that are obese.

We are all guinea pigs in an uncontrolled program of chemical pollution from the oil and plastics companies and the industrialized farming and meat and dairy production. So many common illnesses have dramatically increased year after year since the 1970's when the Nixon administration initiated subsidies for the production of corn with so much that the surplus had to first be turned into high fructose corn syrup and later into ethanol (that takes more fossil fuel to produce than the ethanol provides).

Carbonfiberboy 

Good post. Lots of very good information there, well worth reading the whole thing. I use similar methods and assumptions when I calculate food energy requirements for our 10-day backpacks. He does need a proofreader, though.

So many charlatans out there in the business of selling BS nutrition plans, books and substances. I mentioned that I'm not a calorie counter, and Layne Norton has a good excuse for those like me:
i.e. use a scale. And OMG in the above quote . . .there is such a thing in even the English language as the subjunctive mood, thus not "was eating" but "were eating." "Had been eating" would also be correct.

OldTryGuy

Surviving Prostate Cancer is paramount in my life and due to my situation I am in contact with men around the World who are indeed practicing fasting to improve their health and who have found as a by-product their athletic endeavors have improved.

MinnMan

FWIW, I've always loved salad.

I weigh what I did in high school.

What works for me may not be for you.

Those posting single-theory-for-eveyrthing declarations (no processed foods, intermittent fasting, insulin is the key, portion control) are missing the point, IMHO. There is no single best way for weight control that works for everybody. you have to find what works for you.

Carbonfiberboy 

There's that old saw, often repeated on BF, that the way to burn fat is to ride a lot in Z2, below VT1, in the "fat-burning zone." That definitely does improve one's ability to burn fat on the bike, but is that the most effective exercise to reduce adipose fat? This study says not:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.685166/full

So to lose more fat than muscle, hit the gym and do hard intervals.

big john

Through weight training and wrestling I was close to 250# in high school. I starved and went down to 175 when I was about 19. Lived with friends and we all lost weight. Later became an alcoholic and went over 250 with a 44 inch waist. Got pretty sick, ulcer, lost weight, quit drinking and later, smoking.

Riding dirt bikes and bicycles helped a lot. I'm happy to have made it this far, I'm down to 200 now. I do eat lots of salads but I don't follow anyone's advice or diet plans. Don't read about Keto or fasting or much else about any of it. I know me and what I will and won't do.

wolfchild

You're definitely doing something wrong by avoiding two of the most nutrient dense foods out there.

ofajen

Just to make sure we don’t miss some low-hanging fruit, do you drink sugary soft drinks? If you do, knocking those out will likely help gradually trim weight.

Otto

MoAlpha

I’d have to look it up, but I’m pretty sure it’s above 12%. However, those are data from a generally unfit population. Moreover, it has been speculated that the reason it’s a U might be the association of some fat with a healthy lean mass and low fat with very low lean mass. Therefore, I would assume that for you, with your level of fitness and muscle mass, that 9-12% or whatever is very healthy number.

Carbonfiberboy 

Amen. I tried looking it up and got basically nowhere.

Carbonfiberboy 

I've been eating a plant-based diet for 50 years. I eat neither mammals nor dinosaurs. I agree with no red meat, fish only in the meat department, but I urge you to rethink the no-eggs thing. It happens that we need certain amino acids in a certain ratio for optimal health. It also happens that those exact amino acids in that ratio are available in eggs. That's not an accident. DNA is god, it tells us what to eat. IOW, we originated eating lots of eggs and for rather obvious reasons. So eat eggs. They contain choline, which is a bit rare in other non-meat foods, and we need it too. I consume about 6 eggs/week counting cooking uses and also supplement with lecithin. For really decent eggs, select eggs from "pasture-raised" hens. Makes a noticeable difference in flavor and nutrients. They're supposed to eat a lot of bugs, not just chicken feed. Nothing unhealthy about eggs per se.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Ch...hProfessional/

MoAlpha

Just found bunch of lit by Googling “effect of body fat on all-cause mortality.” The magic number seems to be around 25%, but again, the effect may be operating via an an association with absolute lean mass.

rsbob 

Unfortunately your body needs protein and during your fast, your muscles are also being metabolized as well. Lots written on the subject of fasting and muscle wasting.

Jughed

I am an insulin/T2 mess - can gain weight at will, easy, fast, body just stores fat. Losing weight = a long slow slog with close to zero margin of error. I don't process carbs/sugars well, insulin resistance, and my body will simply dump insulin into the system.

Like the OP, I'm 6' - 187-192# depending on the day.

Zero sugar, almost zero carbs, 2 meals per day, whole foods, zero alcohol, 150+ miles per week on the bike, 80/20 training plan.

31" waist, fairly lean/vascular, medium sized cycling jersey... 190#.

Sometimes it is what it is. Only way for me to get below 187 is to flat starve myself, not have any energy, feel like crap... eat some carbs for a big bike ride, or cheat and have a slice of pizza - right back up to 192#... will hold the 3-4#s of water for days, then have to struggle to get back to 187. Getting below that weight - I don't have a clue how to do it at this point.

big john

So why try to get below 187 if it makes you miserable? I think I would climb better if I got down to 190 but I'm not prepared to try anything more than what I do now.

I think at some point you have to include your mental health in all of the diet stuff. I'm sure for some people counting calories/fasting/adhering to strict diet controls may come easy. For those of us with addictive personalities with weight histories spanning a range of 75 pounds or more, not so easy.

I have a friend who is a yo-yo dieter. Extremely intelligent man, college educated, entrepreneur, retired very young, etc. Was 300#, got down to 175 and kicked all manner of ass on the bike, including a sub 9 hour double century. Back up to 240, back down under 200, and, now, 240 again. My point is there may be an emotional component to the whole thing.

Jtmav

Dieting is a short term adjustment, usually with short term results. All the different ways described in this thread may work for some but not for all. I think it’s been mentioned earlier that we all have to find strategies that work for us as individuals. Age, lifestyle, genetics all come into play. A doctor told me once that one of the real reasons people gain weight in the later years is that they make food or alcohol choices because they “deserve it now”. I found a way of eating that is working for me at keeping my weight and most recent blood work all in healthy ranges. What motivates us to make changes, is it vanity or health or maybe both. No judgement here, whatever the reason for adopting a healthier lifestyle the results are positive. Moderation is most things can breed contentment I think. YMMV

blacknbluebikes 

If you (generically) need to lose weight, you know it. You don't need some specially quantified measure to confirm it. The only question is how badly you want it. If you truly want it, and not just wishing or contemplating, you'll commit to it, stick with it and get results. You'll adopt new habits that ensure your success and fiercely avoid things that foil your efforts. Ask any smoker who quit (took me four tries). Change is hard, and some changes are really hard. Some are up to the task, and some are not. That's not a "judging people" statement, just a fact and, maybe, an acceptance.

RB1-luvr

At 59 years old I have a Dunlop. My stomach, done lopped over my belt. I blame it on my incredibly boring desk job, a drawer full of treats, busy home schedule, slowing metabolism and being weak.

MinnMan

Not judging, but who puts the treats in that drawer?

I bring fruit to work.

gobicycling

247 many many years ago, now consistently at 160 to 163. Eat a lot of fruit, use small plates for meals, get lots of exercise. Wife and I always share a restaurant meal. Due to allergies there's many things I cannot eat, and most of those would be bad for me if I did. That's what works for me.