Tentacle Master

Ok so heres my problem I need a touring bike (bike #44) and after compiling a excel sheet of all the pros and cons of all the touring bikes made for 2009 (under $2000) Im left with the LHT and the Jamis Aurora Elite. At this point you must think im crazy. The Jamis Aurora Elite? WTF? We'll heres the kicker I work for a bike shop that sells only Jamis so I can get my AE at cost about $700-$800 (insert your jealousy here). I can also get a LHT at cost, probably, because my friend owns another bike shop that stocks surlys (insert more jealousy). I've never had a bike with STI so I really, really want STI, so Id upgrade the LHT to have STI. Also the AE has the worst gearing out of any touring bike made in 2009, maybe ever, so I would be switching out the cassette, RD, and maybe the shifters. (don't know if I want to keep 10 spd or 9 yet).

So if I can get both the bikes and the parts to make them anyway I want at cost, what should I do?

kayakdiver

With the above information being used..... I would go Jamis. Little biased here but I like a quicker handling bike that is lighter weight. More fun for me when I'm not touring. Jamis gives you a lifetime frame warranty as a bonus. Surly may also? Jamis looks better if that counts? It's also nice riding something a little different than the crowd.

Barrettscv 

You should be able to sell the new take-offs from the Jamis on ebay and buy the gearing & brifters you want with very little extra investment (if any). You will then have the bike geared to your needs & wants.

You have several options.

Get a touring crank & FD to provide a < 30t chain ring & keep the RD & 10 speed cassette.

Get a 9 speed rear cassette with a 11-34 range and a new RD & Tiagra 9 speed brifters.

Or go wild and get a Sram XX 10 speed 11-34 rear cassette, RD and right brifter.

Michael

Bacciagalupe

If you want STI, I say go for the Jamis Elite.

The components really are not that bad -- hardly the worst out there. 105 levers are high quality, the Ultegra/105 derailleurs and Avid cantis are better than the LHT's Tektros. The main hitch is that the gearing isn't as low as the LHT.

You might want to lower the gearing a little bit, I'm sure your shop buddies can do that for you no problem. Changing the cassette is probably all you need, unless you plan to haul 80 pounds of gear.

Tentacle Master

Ive pretty much decided the cassette is out. its 12-27 or something ******** like that. worst decision ever by Jamis.

I was looking at a cassette by IRD thats 10 speed 11-34, Im not sure how well the Shimano MTB rear derailuers work with 10 speeds though.

kayakdiver

Rear derailuer doesn't care.... I run a 9 speed Tiagra on my old 8 speed Specialized Sirrus out back.

staehpj1

The elite is pretty stupidly spec'ed for touring IMO. The regular Jamis Aurora would make a lot more sense.

Barrettscv 

9 and 8 speed are interchange-able but 9 and 10 are not.

Barrettscv 

The Shimano 10 speed RD has a max range of 27t on the cassette. 28t will function if cross chaining is avoided.

The only 10 speed RD that will accept a wide ranging cassette is the Sram XX. It will work with Sram brifters.

Michael

Tentacle Master

OK so maybe to refine my question: if the LHT and Jamis AE cost the same, If money wasn't an issue, and I can spec out either bike with brifters, 11-34 (9 or 10spd) cassette, and a new rear derailluer appropriate to my (cassette) choice, with out regard to cost to any of the later, which bike should I get?

Barrettscv 

None of the MTB Shimano RD will work with a 10 speed cassette.

BUT this groupe will give you both 10 speeds & will work with brifters...check this out: https://www.sram.com/en/XX/products/

Barrettscv 

The LHT will be easier to convert to wide range gearing & STI. You will just need 9 speed Tiagra Brifters and a Tiagra RD.

Michael

BengeBoy 

I think it depends on what you're going to use the bike for.

For my purposes, I'd pick the Jamis. If you were doing heavy duty touring all the time, the Surly might have the edge (stouter wheels, more tire clearance, longer chainstays).

But for all-round purposes I like the Jamis. For heavy touring you might want a stronger rear wheel (I believe stock it has 32 spokes front and back). But it's a nice bike. Very attractive, too.

Tentacle Master

I would like to point your attention to one intresting touring bike of 2009 the cannondale touring 1

It has an IRD 10 speed 11-34 cassette
Ultegra Rear Derailluer
30/39/50 crankset

https://www.cannondale.com/bikes/09/cusa/model-8TR1.html

Can I duplicate this?

Barrettscv 

Well... yes. I've never seen an Ultegra 10 speed long reach RD before. It looks like you only need to change the RD and the Cassette. The Brifters and chain are already 10 speed specific. You could also use the Sram XX 10 speed cassette, It will work with the 10 speed chain and shares a 10 speed spacing standard with Shimano.

Michael

TruckerMike

You, and the replies, are taking your eye off the ball in your criteria selection. You want the one that FITS !

LHT and Aurora's have very different geometries and one will reward one body type much better than another. Forget about the deraileur spec and focus on getting the one which fits your dimensions.

Barrettscv 

The OP has 43 bikes! they all fit.

Tentacle Master

So true. Fit isn't as important to me as other people for the following combined reasons...
1) I'm young and fit
2) I've ridden long distances on everything from my Trek 700 to my mountain bike, and my folding bike to my bone breaking motorized bike
3) Where am I suppose to find a LHT or AE to test ride? Well i know some1 with a LHT but its a size to big and you'd think working for a Jamis LBS I could find another shop within 100 miles who has an AE but its proving to be difficult.
4)having so many bikes Ive become a pro at fitting myself regardless of the bike geometry (other people not so much)

I'm was trying to find a bike with similar geometry to the AE that i could get my hands on but since a few cms can make a difference similar is most likely not good enough.

Also I'm not even sure I want 10 speeds. I've heard rumors that they're not as durable as 9s. Im sure there's a thread on it somewhere.....
Also because 10 speed items are not as common a LBS (in the middle of nowhere) may not have 10 speed components. This is kinda true since I work at a LBS and we carry only a few 10 speed components, mostly trade-ins. mistakes or warranty parts.

envane

The regular 2009 Aurora is the same exact same geometry as the Elite.

I ride a 2007 non-elite Aurora I use for commuting and light touring. Where do you expect to tour? If you are young and fit, and not riding heavy in mountainous terrain, you could probably get away with the stock gearing on the Elite.

Tentacle Master

Yeah i know but the Aurora is just as hard to find to test ride

Thats besides the point. and I'm thinking the hills of west Texas need a good rolling on

Bacciagalupe

Sorry, I should have qualified a further point.... The Aurora Elite is more of a "sport touring" bike. I.e. as the name suggests, the LHT will ride like a truck (slow and stable, very good when loaded). The Aurora Elite will be a tad faster, and feel a little more responsive. It's also built on a cross frame, so it will be a little better on dirt paths and, in general, a tad more versatile (though probably still not quite as fast as a standard road bike).

You still shouldn't have too much trouble if you put on a 12-29 cassette -- the official specs are on the conservative side.

As to 9 vs 10, I don't see any reason for concern; 9 speed is getting phased out anyway. You'll be able to get 9 speed parts for a long time, but in a year or two, a shop is more likely to have 10 speed on hand and would have to order 9 speed. Barrettsv is slightly incorrect in that the rear derailleur will work with any cassette; the potential incompatibility is the indexed shifters. (e.g. I just put a modern Tiagra derailleur on a 7 speed freewheel and with 7 speed downtube indexed shifters, so no problems whatsoever).

So if you plan to load up your bike with 70 pounds of gear and stay on the road for 2 months, LHT is a better option. If you plan on lighter loads, shorter tours, and other uses, AE is fine.

wfromm

One thing to consider is that you work for a Jamis dealer. Your boss is willing to sell you the bike for a substantial discount or possibly at cost and it would be nice if you had a Jamis. Customers often look and consider what bike the shop employees are riding and make their choices accordingly. That being said, I think that the LHT is a better touring bike. However, I think the Jamis may be better for many rider's riding style. Only you can choose. The Elite will need some modifications, but that should be no problem since you work in a shop. I like the standard Aurora and want a deal on one.

kayakdiver

no you don't. what comes with the LHT will work fine.

kayakdiver

Brain fart... Oh well. Nothing wrong with the 105 shifters for the 9 speed though. You can go with a JTek shiftmate https://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong. See post above

TruckerMike

You don't need to test ride to know when a head tube is going to be too short on an LHT in the frame size that has the Effective TT your cockpit needs. Take a measuring tape to the bikes you already own and see what geometry fits and then use those number against the published geo charts from surly and jamis (but you already knew this, right?)

Personally, I got a pro bike fitting and found out my numbers and used those to evaluate some how close the stock geometry of certain bikes comes to my ideal fit. For me, the LHT's short headtube would have meant way too may spacers under the stem in the frame-size which got me the right horizontal TT length.

Aurora's, on the other hand, had much better geometry for me. So, I know they're dramatically different and this is the kind of bike you're going to be spending Loooooong days in the saddle. Forget about the minor spec differences - you can fix those, but focus on the frame geometry suitability cause that can't be fixed (and don't tell me you can just swap out the stem....or we'll really side track this thread).