What Sort of Gearing Works Best for your Needs?
#251
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#252
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
For pavement riding on flat and rolling terrain I use fixed gear with 44 x 16 gear ratio and 700 x 32 mm tires
For gravel riding I use singlespeed with 42 x 18 gear ratio and 700 x 45 mm tires
For mountain biking on technical and hilly singletrack I use a singlespeed MTB with 36 x 18 gear ratio and 26 x 2.35 tires.
For gravel riding I use singlespeed with 42 x 18 gear ratio and 700 x 45 mm tires
For mountain biking on technical and hilly singletrack I use a singlespeed MTB with 36 x 18 gear ratio and 26 x 2.35 tires.
I think a lot of my habits come from growing up primarily on single speed. I never think in terms of ideal cadence.
#253
I ride in lower gears, especially in a headwind, and I'll actually spin a low gear going uphill. I'm just fastest in the 53x11 on the flat. Mostly, though, I just find spinning a lower gear tedious. There's a certain sense of power I experience pushing a high gear that I just can't duplicate in lower gears. The great distance covered with a single turn almost feels like a super power. Also, I can accelerate like crazy a few gears below and shift up rapidly.
I've measured it a lot, I'm 1 mph or better faster in the highest gear than I am in any other.
I've measured it a lot, I'm 1 mph or better faster in the highest gear than I am in any other.
But if you are 1 mph faster in your highest gear than any other then it means that you can't spin your legs any faster at a slightly lower torque to make up the same power. What makes you unique is that most people can comfortably generate more power at say 80-90 rpm vs 50-60 rpm.
#254
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
That sense of power is actually your sense of torque. Power = Torque x Cadence so for any given power you will feel more force/torque at the pedals at a lower cadence.
But if you are 1 mph faster in your highest gear than any other then it means that you can't spin your legs any faster at a slightly lower torque to make up the same power. What makes you unique is that most people can comfortably generate more power at say 80-90 rpm vs 50-60 rpm.
But if you are 1 mph faster in your highest gear than any other then it means that you can't spin your legs any faster at a slightly lower torque to make up the same power. What makes you unique is that most people can comfortably generate more power at say 80-90 rpm vs 50-60 rpm.
From my perspective, you have this backwards. Most people spin a lower gear because they can't push the big one. Most people also don't have anywhere near the endurance I have and I believe I'm about as fast as I can expect to be at my age and weight. I'm cruising in the flat between 20 and 24 mph. RPMs are costly from a CV standpoint, and that represents wasted energy. I don't know why I'd want to pedal more to produce the same result, but I'm sure it would adversely affect my endurance.
That sense of power is my emotional response to my ability to apply a lot of torque. In essence, you asked me what happens when I try to ride without applying so much torque. I lose that sense of power and riding seems dull, mechanical, and uninspiring. I'm not sure I can convey why this occurs except to say being able to get a really big burst of speed by just pedaling 1-2 rpm faster in the high gear is instantly exhilarating and I'm not close to being able to duplicate that by rapidly drastically increasing my rpms in a lower gear. I know there are people who do, I'm never going to be one of them.
I'm going to bow out of any more discussion of this on this thread. Suffice it to say that my general strategy is to apply maximum torque on each rpm and obviously, that strategy is less effective in lower gears. You are so immersed in a strategy of maintaining a cadence that that seems weird, where I care so little about my cadence that I've never measured it.
#255
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
From my perspective, you have this backwards. Most people spin a lower gear because they can't push the big one. Most people also don't have anywhere near the endurance I have and I believe I'm about as fast as I can expect to be at my age and weight. I'm cruising in the flat between 20 and 24 mph. RPMs are costly from a CV standpoint, and that represents wasted energy. I don't know why I'd want to pedal more to produce the same result, but I'm sure it would adversely affect my endurance.
That sense of power is my emotional response to my ability to apply a lot of torque. In essence, you asked me what happens when I try to ride without applying so much torque. I lose that sense of power and riding seems dull, mechanical, and uninspiring. I'm not sure I can convey why this occurs except to say being able to get a really big burst of speed by just pedaling 1-2 rpm faster in the high gear is instantly exhilarating and I'm not close to being able to duplicate that by rapidly drastically increasing my rpms in a lower gear. I know there are people who do, I'm never going to be one of them.
I'm going to bow out of any more discussion of this on this thread. Suffice it to say that my general strategy is to apply maximum torque on each rpm and obviously, that strategy is less effective in lower gears. You are so immersed in a strategy of maintaining a cadence that that seems weird, where I care so little about my cadence that I've never measured it.
That sense of power is my emotional response to my ability to apply a lot of torque. In essence, you asked me what happens when I try to ride without applying so much torque. I lose that sense of power and riding seems dull, mechanical, and uninspiring. I'm not sure I can convey why this occurs except to say being able to get a really big burst of speed by just pedaling 1-2 rpm faster in the high gear is instantly exhilarating and I'm not close to being able to duplicate that by rapidly drastically increasing my rpms in a lower gear. I know there are people who do, I'm never going to be one of them.
I'm going to bow out of any more discussion of this on this thread. Suffice it to say that my general strategy is to apply maximum torque on each rpm and obviously, that strategy is less effective in lower gears. You are so immersed in a strategy of maintaining a cadence that that seems weird, where I care so little about my cadence that I've never measured it.
your ability not to spin fast is likely due to a wrong crank arm size and/or not a very smooth bottom bracket. Guaranteed you can make more torque at a higher cadence (ie. Generate much more power, more efficiently)
#256
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Luckily, your perspective is only yours and thats that. I'm sorry, but you are speaking such complete nonsense.
your ability not to spin fast is likely due to a wrong crank arm size and/or not a very smooth bottom bracket. Guaranteed you can make more torque at a higher cadence (ie. Generate much more power, more efficiently)
your ability not to spin fast is likely due to a wrong crank arm size and/or not a very smooth bottom bracket. Guaranteed you can make more torque at a higher cadence (ie. Generate much more power, more efficiently)
I believe I could train myself up to be a mediocre spinner if that's what I wanted to do. I'd rather be a very good masher. Mashing is more, not less, efficient than spinning. When you can do 168 miles in a day, get back to me. Nothing in your post history indicates you have anything to teach me.
Arguing with you is not worth my time, so post whatever nonsense assertion about crank arms you want. I'm not even going to read it.
Likes For livedarklions:
#257
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
Sorry, but you literally have no basis for that and like I said, I have absolutely no reason to respect your opinion. You clearly know nothing about physiology or distance riding. But thanks for pretending you know more about me than I do.
I believe I could train myself up to be a mediocre spinner if that's what I wanted to do. I'd rather be a very good masher. Mashing is more, not less, efficient than spinning. When you can do 168 miles in a day, get back to me. Nothing in your post history indicates you have anything to teach me.
Arguing with you is not worth my time, so post whatever nonsense assertion about crank arms you want. I'm not even going to read it.
I believe I could train myself up to be a mediocre spinner if that's what I wanted to do. I'd rather be a very good masher. Mashing is more, not less, efficient than spinning. When you can do 168 miles in a day, get back to me. Nothing in your post history indicates you have anything to teach me.
Arguing with you is not worth my time, so post whatever nonsense assertion about crank arms you want. I'm not even going to read it.
#258
Drip, Drip.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
My basis would be quite literally all of bike forums convincing me in a unified manner that spinning is more efficient until I tried it myself and adapted my cadence style. I tend to ride in a style that mixes between the two, but can spin close to 120rpm for short bursts. This is by far the most power I can produce (up to about 465 watts) ,
Baby spins at 60 rpm is either for old men or for warming up.
Baby spins at 60 rpm is either for old men or for warming up.
#259
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,273
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Liked 984 Times
in
573 Posts
Luckily, your perspective is only yours and thats that. I'm sorry, but you are speaking such complete nonsense.
your ability not to spin fast is likely due to a wrong crank arm size and/or not a very smooth bottom bracket. Guaranteed you can make more torque at a higher cadence (ie. Generate much more power, more efficiently)
your ability not to spin fast is likely due to a wrong crank arm size and/or not a very smooth bottom bracket. Guaranteed you can make more torque at a higher cadence (ie. Generate much more power, more efficiently)
Everybody's physiology is a little different, and as such, has different strengths and weaknesses.
Some of us. Like LDL, and myself are better suited/trained/adapted to applying higher torque at lower cadence. For most people, it seems to be easier to go the other way.
When you get someone who can do both big power and high speed, you get someone like Mercx, Boardman, or Indurain very few people fall into that category.
Spinning faster has nothing to do with crank size. If I rode the kind of cranks you think you need, I'd look like The Ministry of Silly Walks
Likes For Ironfish653:
#260
From my perspective, you have this backwards. Most people spin a lower gear because they can't push the big one. Most people also don't have anywhere near the endurance I have and I believe I'm about as fast as I can expect to be at my age and weight. I'm cruising in the flat between 20 and 24 mph. RPMs are costly from a CV standpoint, and that represents wasted energy. I don't know why I'd want to pedal more to produce the same result, but I'm sure it would adversely affect my endurance.
That sense of power is my emotional response to my ability to apply a lot of torque. In essence, you asked me what happens when I try to ride without applying so much torque. I lose that sense of power and riding seems dull, mechanical, and uninspiring. I'm not sure I can convey why this occurs except to say being able to get a really big burst of speed by just pedaling 1-2 rpm faster in the high gear is instantly exhilarating and I'm not close to being able to duplicate that by rapidly drastically increasing my rpms in a lower gear. I know there are people who do, I'm never going to be one of them.
I'm going to bow out of any more discussion of this on this thread. Suffice it to say that my general strategy is to apply maximum torque on each rpm and obviously, that strategy is less effective in lower gears. You are so immersed in a strategy of maintaining a cadence that that seems weird, where I care so little about my cadence that I've never measured it.
That sense of power is my emotional response to my ability to apply a lot of torque. In essence, you asked me what happens when I try to ride without applying so much torque. I lose that sense of power and riding seems dull, mechanical, and uninspiring. I'm not sure I can convey why this occurs except to say being able to get a really big burst of speed by just pedaling 1-2 rpm faster in the high gear is instantly exhilarating and I'm not close to being able to duplicate that by rapidly drastically increasing my rpms in a lower gear. I know there are people who do, I'm never going to be one of them.
I'm going to bow out of any more discussion of this on this thread. Suffice it to say that my general strategy is to apply maximum torque on each rpm and obviously, that strategy is less effective in lower gears. You are so immersed in a strategy of maintaining a cadence that that seems weird, where I care so little about my cadence that I've never measured it.
As for people spinning a lower gear because they can't push a big one is not quite right either. What most people do (including you) is ride at a cadence that feels comfortable for them. The only difference is that most people prefer a cadence in the 70-90 rpm range and it's the faster guys who tend to ride at a higher cadence.
#261
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#262
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,193
Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er
Liked 2,058 Times
in
987 Posts
Just my pet theory: larger, heavier muscle bound cyclists would prefer a slower cadence?
While, slimmer, lighter cyclists prefer a higher cadence?
I'm 6'2" 200 lbs and 80 rpm seems to be my sweet spot.
While, slimmer, lighter cyclists prefer a higher cadence?
I'm 6'2" 200 lbs and 80 rpm seems to be my sweet spot.
Likes For CAT7RDR:
#263
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Yup, my preferred slow cadence and my ability to generate big torque are both caused by the same source--big heavy leg muscles.
#264
Senior Member
Also at 200 lbs at 6' 2" your bmi of 24.3 using the new bmi scale is by no means high. The new bmi scale more accurately represents a healthy weight for tall and shorter people. "They" suggest a bmi of 25 - 27 for seniors over 65, While to 25 is normal for other folks.
I worked with a middle aged man 6' 4" tall and 280 lbs, that's a bmi of 32. He road his bike to work 10 miles each way 6 days a week, even in the winter. When they checked his pulse and blood pressure they were going to call an ambulance both were that low. I don't know what his cadence was, but I'm sure he didn't need 90 rpm for good power.
I saw him riding in my neighborhood where he lived and thought to myself, My God these high school kids are big today, until I recognized him. Quite a sight seeing a 280 lb 6' 4" man on a skinny road bike, Which he pretty much destroyed in 1 year.
Likes For xroadcharlie:
#265
I read all this talk about 90 rpm being a good cadence for cyclist, Yet I see all the time road cyclist speeding along while riding my comfort bike at a cadence barely faster then my 70 rpm (in a lower gear) much closer to your preferred cadence of 80 rpm.
Also at 200 lbs at 6' 2" your bmi of 24.3 using the new bmi scale is by no means high. The new bmi scale more accurately represents a healthy weight for tall and shorter people. "They" suggest a bmi of 25 - 27 for seniors over 65, While to 25 is normal for other folks.
I worked with a middle aged man 6' 4" tall and 280 lbs, that's a bmi of 32. He road his bike to work 10 miles each way 6 days a week, even in the winter. When they checked his pulse and blood pressure they were going to call an ambulance both were that low. I don't know what his cadence was, but I'm sure he didn't need 90 rpm for good power.
I saw him riding in my neighborhood where he lived and thought to myself, My God these high school kids are big today, until I recognized him. Quite a sight seeing a 280 lb 6' 4" man on a skinny road bike, Which he pretty much destroyed in 1 year.
Also at 200 lbs at 6' 2" your bmi of 24.3 using the new bmi scale is by no means high. The new bmi scale more accurately represents a healthy weight for tall and shorter people. "They" suggest a bmi of 25 - 27 for seniors over 65, While to 25 is normal for other folks.
I worked with a middle aged man 6' 4" tall and 280 lbs, that's a bmi of 32. He road his bike to work 10 miles each way 6 days a week, even in the winter. When they checked his pulse and blood pressure they were going to call an ambulance both were that low. I don't know what his cadence was, but I'm sure he didn't need 90 rpm for good power.
I saw him riding in my neighborhood where he lived and thought to myself, My God these high school kids are big today, until I recognized him. Quite a sight seeing a 280 lb 6' 4" man on a skinny road bike, Which he pretty much destroyed in 1 year.
Likes For PeteHski:
#266
#267
I know you find it ridiculous. But for most people that sort of cadence and torque, riding at those speeds (24 mph requires 350W for a 200 lb rider on the flat with no headwind) would likely lead to excessive joint stress. It clearly works for you, but what I'm saying is far from ridiculous. Riding at low cadence and low torque is a different matter. Obviously that is not painful - just slow!
#268
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
#269
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,193
Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er
Liked 2,058 Times
in
987 Posts
I guess it all depends what you mean by fitness?
For example, an NFL running back at 5'10" 220 lbs BMI 31.4 with the NFL average for body fat % (RB'S) of 11.8 would be considered obese by the BMI.
Without looking at musculature and bone frame, BMI seems to compare apples to oranges. That is, BMI perhaps is OK to use for average people but does not accurately depict muscular athletes.
For example, an NFL running back at 5'10" 220 lbs BMI 31.4 with the NFL average for body fat % (RB'S) of 11.8 would be considered obese by the BMI.
Without looking at musculature and bone frame, BMI seems to compare apples to oranges. That is, BMI perhaps is OK to use for average people but does not accurately depict muscular athletes.
Likes For CAT7RDR:
#270
Senior Member
#271
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
#273
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I know you find it ridiculous. But for most people that sort of cadence and torque, riding at those speeds (24 mph requires 350W for a 200 lb rider on the flat with no headwind) would likely lead to excessive joint stress. It clearly works for you, but what I'm saying is far from ridiculous. Riding at low cadence and low torque is a different matter. Obviously that is not painful - just slow!
We're having a half empty. half full argument. You said, in essence, that it's my lack of ability to spin that's making me mash to go fast, and I said that from my perspective, it's other people's lack of ability to mash as hard as I do that makes them spin to go fast.
.
#274
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Liked 9,103 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#275
Here's what I was responding to--"Most people (as in pretty much everyone else) would find your cadence painful". If all you're saying the real issue is most people can't apply torque like I do, I said that already. Whether it's because of pain or lack of leg strength really doesn't matter. I've made it very clear that I'm aware that I'm an outlier.
We're having a half empty. half full argument. You said, in essence, that it's my lack of ability to spin that's making me mash to go fast, and I said that from my perspective, it's other people's lack of ability to mash as hard as I do that makes them spin to go fast.
.
We're having a half empty. half full argument. You said, in essence, that it's my lack of ability to spin that's making me mash to go fast, and I said that from my perspective, it's other people's lack of ability to mash as hard as I do that makes them spin to go fast.
.