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Electronic vs Mechanical shifting

Old 02-05-23, 06:29 PM
  #176  
GhostRider62
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Originally Posted by smd4
Did you not read the part I wrote about ďonce properly adjusted?Ē I use downtube shifters and have never once worried about frayed cables, gummed up cables, or any additional adjustments once properly set.

Iíd much rather have my Seiko automatic than any digital watch.
All of my bikes for over 30 years are mechanical meaning indexed shifted whereas in the 80's I had C record, bar cons on my touring bike, and in the 70s, I had Campy Record on my 1972 Masi GC. I still have those bikes. We're talking past each other but thanks for trying to play.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:32 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Why do you think a steel bike hasnít won the TDF since 1994? Why are Ineos not riding steel Pinarellos today?
Winning races has a lot more to do with the riders training and genetics and PEDs than the frame material, type of brakes or the type of derailleur that he is using...The main reason why pros have switched to disc brakes, electronic shifting and carbon everything is simply because bike industry coerced them by force into using it. They can't say no because they would loose their career.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:45 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Winning races has a lot more to do with the riders training and genetics and PEDs than the frame material, type of brakes or the type of derailleur that he is using...The main reason why pros have switched to disc brakes, electronic shifting and carbon everything is simply because bike industry coerced them by force into using it. They can't say no because they would loose their career.
How do you explain the local race scene and other amateur events like Fondos or sporting group rides which are completely dominated by the bikes you describe above. I assume you would consider they are not as wise and able to resist brainwashing as yourself. I have a perfectly restored Marinoni custom made for myself in the late 70’s which hangs in my den, I just see no purpose in riding it when compared to my new bikes. I mention this because I also have nostalgic feelings of the past but recognize they really weren’t that good when compared to current tech.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:51 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Winning races has a lot more to do with the riders training and genetics and PEDs than the frame material, type of brakes or the type of derailleur that he is using...The main reason why pros have switched to disc brakes, electronic shifting and carbon everything is simply because bike industry coerced them by force into using it. They can't say no because they would loose their career.
That and because the competition simply drives marginal gains. You must be deluded if you think bikes have not improved over the last 40 years, but then I guess you probably wouldnít know.

So anyway are you going back to mechanical shifting? Oh wait, you donít even ride a multi-geared bike.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:52 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by seypat
I can tell you from personal experience caddying on one of the golf tours that players did not necessarily play the equipment that worked best for them. They'd play what they were paid to and adjust/adapt. Like most professionals, the mindset is "I can win with anything I use." On one particular instance, the player's equipment choice for that week was the direct reason he missed the cut in that tournament. He told me afterwards that the ball/driver/putter contract from company X is what gave him the seed money to pay for his starts each week. On the golf tours the Darrell Survey happens on Thursday or Friday so the players must have their sponsor's equipment in the bag that day. The rest of the week leading up he had played with a driver from company Y and hit it well. Darrell Survey day the sponsored driver is in the bag. He hits 2 OB off the tee with that driver. We miss the cut by a stroke.

Plenty of stories like that from golf. Whether it happens in cycling, I don't know.
I don't think equipment choice is as critical in mass start racing as it is in professional golf. I am not a very good cyclist, maybe the equivalent of a 10 handicap in golf but I was pretty good in golf (plus 2). The speed of the golf swing puts an enormous premium on the correct shaft and to a lesser extent to ball choice. I miss golf but my back is hosed, my last round had me -8 after 12 and had to stop with two par 5s to play and I thought I'd beat my best of 62. After I had shot that I asked the shop what the course record was.......56.....some guy named ViJay. Pros are in a different universe, I played the US Open course at WInged Foot, Merion, and Shinncock just before the Open with 80, 82, 76 and I played really well. Pros would be 10 shots better but I think I can appreciate how good they are. Long story short, I thing gear choice is a bigger deal in golf but I am not a very good cyclist and it seems tactics and teamwork are more important and that W/Kg thing on the climbs. Equipment in cycling is all pretty much the same.

Last edited by GhostRider62; 02-05-23 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:54 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
An electronic RD doesn't have to cost $700. GX Eagle AXS is $390.
Got a link at that price ?, I couldnt find anything near that cheap.
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Old 02-05-23, 06:56 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by L134
Sort of like the guys riding electric bikes up Alpe d'huez asking why anyone would ride up on old, obsolete tech. Just a bunch of old fashioned, nostalgic, tearful dreamers.
Itís not really anything like that.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:02 PM
  #183  
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List on a SRAM Force AXS RD is $377 and can be found for $300
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Old 02-05-23, 07:04 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
Well, its a LOT cheaper to initially replace shift cables than a battery. I tend to buy the Shimano DA pre-packaged shift cable and housing set which runs about $31 or so. A Battery is $130. A road cable maybe every 2 or 3 years ?, a battery every 5 ?. Thats what my road Di2 has on it and its still holding a multi month charge. Battery might cost more long term, but on Di2 the shifting never slowly gets worse as can happen with mechanical.
i replace the rear shifter cable once per year. when removed i can see that it is well worn near the innards of the shifter. not terribly expensive but it does add up over time. i'll be new to di2 but i would expect the battery to last more than 5 years though based on current battery technology.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:04 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
The question one ought to ask about any new tech is "Do the benefits this new tech offers justify the additional cost?"

Every design has trade-offs. Electronic shifting trades complexity, weight, and cost for certain perceived benefits.

Some of the claimed benefits, from manufacturer BS marketing claims, with my own "DuraAce mechanical user" responses in parentheses:
  • more accurate front shifting (my front shifting is already accurate)
  • 25% faster RD shifting (improvement from a small fraction of a second to a slightly smaller fraction of a second, are they serious?)
  • customize what a shift lever does (nothing I would ever dream of doing)
  • no chain rub on FD cage (my chain never rubs FD, so no benefit there)
  • shorter lever throw to accomplish FD shift (never once said "gee, if only I could shift with slightly less wrist rotation")
  • put additional shift buttons anywhere (I have no application where I would need that, but others might)
  • minimal maintenance after set up (ditto for mechanical, I never need to touch mine after set up)
I used to think like that until I tried SRAM AXS. Itís not that I had any real issues with mechanical shifting and I wouldnít bother upgrading an existing bike. But I can tell you all my future new bikes will not have any cables.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:06 PM
  #186  
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I rarely buy the first iteration of new stuff although my first carbon frame was in 1986. I greatly prefer electronic

I never believed the stories of better descending speeds due to disc brakes and although I have a love/hate relationship with my 2 month old disc brake equipped bike, I have to say that I did a Strava Segment PB on a weird segment that has a lot of very fast technical descents. I wasn't even trying. Or maybe the bike is more aero than my old rim braked Cervelo S3.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:06 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Well said. Part of the issue is these traditional forums are skewed to an much older demographic which is not very progressive in their views and not representative of modern sport cycling. Like Japanese soldiers left on a South Pacific Island fighting a war long since lost, they are still debating, index shifting, 3X drivetrains, tubular tires, lugged steel frames, brifters, carbon fibre, disc brakes, etc. Show a picture of a restored semi mass produced Masi or Cinelli which litter eBay, Craigslist or FB Marketplace and you get tearful accolades after recalling a time when their part time job did not spin out enough cash to purchase said dream bike. This is the last place to come for advice around bike tech.

But entertainment thatís a different story.
nah, i've learned a ton here on BF. you just have to sift though the chaff, that's all.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:09 PM
  #188  
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Price/Qualitie rapport is always a personal decision.

My 25 year old truck gets me where I am going just as well as my new 7 series.
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Old 02-05-23, 07:38 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by georges1
Indurain's first Tour de France win was on an Oria Tig welded Pinarello Paris with C Record 1st gen Ergopower and C Record. And interesting article about Miguel Indurain's Pinarello and his love for steel bikes The later wins of Indurain were done with steel More about Miguel Indurain's wins , so he would choose a steel frame as he won all his tdf on a steel frame. Even his Time Trial bike was a steel made one by Pegoretti with an interesting article about it, Miguel Indurain's time trial bike. Like I said , steel has lots of qualities and for the reminder, before the introduction of more exotic materials such as aluminium, titanium and carbon, Reynolds was considered the dominant maker of high end materials for bicycle frames, with 27 winners of the Tour de France winning the race riding on Reynolds tubing with the 531C and the 753 introduced in1974.
Again, as has been repeatedly pointed out here, if he were young enough to be racing now, he'd be on carbon fiber.

That said:

When Indurain retired before his contract expired, Pinarello, in a fit of pique at losing their cash cow, repo'ed all his team bikes. So he went around to his friends in the peloton and asked what bike they thought he should buy, now that he was a civilian. The most frequent and enthusiastic recommendations: Colnago and Cannondale. He bought a Cannondale.

I remember mentioning that story (which I'd read in Velonews or Cycling Weekly) to our shop's Cannondale rep. He chortled and said, "I know. We'd have given him a bike if he'd only asked!"
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Old 02-05-23, 07:52 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by georges1
There's nothing in that article about Indurain's supposed love for steel bikes---only speculation that, at his size and weight (and strength), he didn't want to risk using frames built with new and (comparatively) unproven technology.

Ironically, Mario Cipollini was one of the few guys in the peloton as big and strong as Indurain, and he loved his Saeco Cannondale. In fact, come to think of it, Indurain probably bought his own Cannondale on Cipollini's recommendation, trusting another big guy rather than all the pipsqueaks.

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Old 02-05-23, 08:14 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Electronic shifting is now a mature tech. So nothing to worry about.
Which is why I'm considering it.
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Old 02-05-23, 08:38 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
10 years from now I hope I still have enough fitness and strength to continue riding SS.... So basically what you're saying is that the bike industry will force all cyclist to go electronic or quit cycling if you don't want electronic ??.
Nobody said this except you.
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Old 02-05-23, 08:41 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
Not sure how SRAM will proceed. Shimano is clearly sending a message that the future is electronic if they choose to not produce a 105 mechanical group. Will that trickle down to Sora and Tiagra ?
I doubt e-shifting will trickle down to Sora anytime soon considering it's still an 8-speed group.
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Old 02-05-23, 09:14 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
But the C&V guys are likely to be on electronic in 10 years, whether they want it or not.
Donít be silly. Mechanical bikes arenít going anywhere. I can still get parts for an 1890s steam locomotive. Model T guys can keep their cars running.

Sorry to disappoint you. Mechanical bikes are here to stay.
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Old 02-05-23, 09:40 PM
  #195  
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It's a conspiracy! Big Electronic, Big Index, Big Disc Brake and Big Carbon are behind all this. But not to worry because Big Mechanical, Big Friction, Big Singlespeed, Big Rim Brake and Big Steel are fighting back!
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Old 02-05-23, 09:49 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
It's a conspiracy! Big Electronic, Big Index, Big Disc Brake and Big Carbon are behind all this. But not to worry because Big Mechanical, Big Friction, Big Singlespeed, Big Rim Brake and Big Steel are fighting back!
When Iím helping operate an obsolete steam locomotive, I laugh at the guys who think their ďmodernĒ diesel is the end-all be-all. And laugh again when they canít start it because the batteries are too cold.

I remember a 1999 railfair where a steam locomotive sported a small sign: ďY2K Compliant.Ē
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Old 02-05-23, 09:56 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Donít be silly. Mechanical bikes arenít going anywhere. I can still get parts for an 1890s steam locomotive. Model T guys can keep their cars running.

Sorry to disappoint you. Mechanical bikes are here to stay.
u

Have to wonder though. Maybe Campy will still be making high end mechanical. Shimano has already decided top 3 groups to be electronic, unless they decide 105 should be mechanical as well. SRAM will likely follow Shimano's lead and go electronic only, for top tier groups. So what mechanical groups are you talking about will still be available ?
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Old 02-05-23, 10:07 PM
  #198  
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In answer to the original question, I had said that I would not go back to mechanical shifting after riding an EPS group set for the past few years.

Then I decided to convert one of my Lynskey hardtails into a drop bar "gravel" bike. Since I have never been able to tolerate the floppy lever of Shimano or the is it two clicks for up or down from SRAM, l was "stuck with" the mechanical Ekar. Short version is I really like the Ekar.

And now I am considering building up a carbon fiber aero road bike while I am still fast enough to benefit from it, and the penalty for Campagnolo EPS Super Record over a mechanical Record group set is around what Mrs. Dan and I would spend on another tour in Scotland.

I can afford to do both, but I am not sure that the EPS is worth that much more to me. My Ekar says that electronic shifting, no matter how good, is not worth three weeks in the Highlands.
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Old 02-05-23, 10:51 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by smd4
When I’m helping operate an obsolete steam locomotive, I laugh at the guys who think their “modern” diesel is the end-all be-all. And laugh again when they can’t start it because the batteries are too cold.

I remember a 1999 railfair where a steam locomotive sported a small sign: “Y2K Compliant.”
Ironic you tell anti-technology story based on a massive hoax “Y2K”!

But really, are we are now talking about steam locomotive advantages over diesel/electric just when I thought it couldn’t get more ridiculous.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 02-05-23 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 02-06-23, 12:18 AM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
But really, are we are now talking about steam locomotive advantages over diesel/electric just when I thought it couldnít get more ridiculous.
You can't make this stuff up ...
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