Koyote

You must've not read the last paragraph of my post.

spelger

Koyote

spelger : This apparently isn't clear to you, so I will spell it out: by listing some other threads which have nothing to do with cycling, you have reinforced (not rebutted) the point made in my last paragraph.

I thank you.

(Note that some of the threads you've listed do have a GC connection, as they can be answered with some knowledge of bike pumps, bike theft, bike racks, etc. But some obviously support my point, which also seems to be the point you've made.)

MrFriendly

The reason I posted this in a cycling forum is because it seemed unique to the cycling world. I can spec out a $70K SUV, put down a deposit to get on a waiting list for six months, and then cancel it and get my money back, no questions asked. I don't understand why I can't do the same with a $7K bicycle, specially when it hasn't shipped yet.

Reflector Guy

Similarly, I once ordered an item from online camera retailer Adorama, late on a Sunday night. Within minutes, I had received an automatic confirmation email and as soon as I saw the email I realized I had ordered the wrong item. So I immediately sent them an email asking that they cancel my order. So first thing Monday morning, I got a nice email (from an actual person) telling me that once an order was placed and "confirmed", that it could not be cancelled, because theoretically the item by now has been packaged and is on the truck waiting to head over to UPS. Not true in my case, however, since I had ordered and cancelled late on a Sunday when they were closed and the item in reality would not be packed until later on Monday. We exchanged a few more emails but in the end, they would not cancel my order, so I had to wait for the box to arrive so I could then take it right over to the UPS store to have it sent right back to NY for a refund. But I had to pay for shipping. Total rigid inflexibility.

Leisesturm

Ever try to cancel an Amazon purchase seconds after making it? No different. Well, one difference: in most cases you can find a free way to return an Amazon purchase. Bottom line, these companies don't profit on the merch they sell you, they profit from the sale itself. Which isn't much so they need to log every single one. They profit even if you return the item. Worse are the ones that hit you with a 're-stocking' fee for returning undamaged merchandise. They can be 15%. On items like computers and photo equipment 15% was the profit they expected anyway. Now you will look at "your money cheerfully refunded" in a new light.

Herzlos

If it's a custom order then they may be out some money but given the shipping date is so far in advance I can't see them having started on it yet because it wouldn't make sense to have half a bike sitting in a workshop for months. You should hopefully be able to at least buy the order out and just pay for any custom bits they'd lose money on.

You might need to phone them and speak to someone and explain the situation. There will presumably also be some hit from the currency fluctuations and exchange rates - if you paid in Euro you'll be refunded in Euro. That said, the import duties on a $7k bike are going to be far higher than any loss on cancellation.

prj71

^^^^This is exactly what you do.

I've been in a similar situation and contacted my CC company and told them cancel a particular charge off of my card and they did.

Reflector Guy

Oh, true that! At another retailer, I ordered a more-expensive item - like a couple hundred dollars - and they emailed me with an "Out of Stock" notice. Strange, it wasn't listed as out of stock on the website (if it was, I would have ordered it somewhere else). So I waited about six weeks and eventually decided to cancel my order. Sure enough, they hit me with a restocking fee! For an item that was out of stock.... Jerks.

alcjphil

I am not sure if this situation is unique to the cycling universe, but the bicycle in question has not only not shipped yet, it is still a bunch of parts in warehouses not yet shipped to the seller. It only takes a couple of hours for a complete bike to be assembled from its components by an experienced mechanic. How do I know that? I have been that person who built up a bike from components for a customer. What you are asking here is about a lead time of about 6 months. At this time the frame of that bike may have been built. Unless the frame was a custom build, the rest of that bike is just unbuilt components

msu2001la

I bought a new wheelset from an LBS in 2021 - they told me it would be 8-12 weeks and it ended up taking more like 7-8 months to deliver. They asked to be paid in full up front, which I obliged, but I later regretted doing this. I had little/no recourse if my wheels never shipped, or if they suddenly went out of business, etc. I don't know what would've happened if I had called them and asked to cancel the order - my guess is they would've balked at having to issue a refund, but probably would've done it anyway. I (probably) wouldn't do this again, and chalk the experience up to a crazy 2021 supply-chain situation that was unique.

I agree that this practice seems a little odd - most other industries would require a deposit and then the remainder of payment when goods are received.

All that said, I knew what I was getting into and still willingly proceeded.

msu2001la

Agreed - assuming we aren't talking about a custom fabrication, I can't think of any other industry or retail sector where a customer has to pay in full for an off-the-shelf product that won't be delivered for many months, with undefined delivery dates. This seems like it would be a deposit situation in most cases.

MrFriendly

The main reason why I'm trying to cancel the order is because, as I've learned the hard way, servicing European bikes is going to be a PITA for me in the U.S. I simply don't want to deal with the hassle.

Eric F 

What kind of service are you talking about? What's special about the bike you ordered that can't be handled by an LBS?

unterhausen

97.3% or more of the users of this forum have bought a bike and so this is on-topic. The other 2.7% are probably spammers.
I have to admit their policy is as clear as mud. Do they really want to ship it to you so you can return it?

I guarantee this is not true at all. Tout Terrain isn't really a European bike anyway, is it? My understanding is they are sourced in Asia, like virtually all bikes nowadays.

Damn, the hamster powering that site must be on strike.

mstateglfr 

add me to the group that wants to understand why/how a bike from Europe is a pita to service. What is unique about this bike that would otherwise be universal for another bike?

Ridinglurker

Amazon let's you cancel an order untill they start processing. This usually gives me a few hours in the rare case I need to cancel. Obviously with 1 or 2 day arrival of the order there can't be a 5 day cancellation window...

If you couldn't cancel, be happy they processed your order immediately.

But that has nothing to do with OP. Their bike wasn't off the shelf and ready to ship upon ordering. Impossible to make people happy. If Amazon takes some hours to process, people complain about delays. If they process immediately, people complain about receiving what they ordered...

I don't understand the European maintenance comment. All or most parts are Asian anyway or use the same standards. Unless they play Canondale or Canyon and invented their proprietary handlebar. But small manufacturers typically are good using common standards.

If maintenance is the only concern, don't worry and buy the bike.

70sSanO

Is it the Rohloff IGH?

When I saw pics of the bike it had a King headset, XT hydraulic brakes, Gates belt drive, Ryde rims.

John

datlas 

Maybe it’s a communications gap or a cultural issue, but since the order is obviously pending and they have not started working on it yet, it seems (to me) quite reasonable to accept a cancellation. Can you talk to them directly and plead your case? If you have a German friend speak on your behalf, that may work even better.

Plan B is to work with your CC company but that will likely become adversarial. Good luck!

MrFriendly

I didn't say European bikes are PITA to service. I said servicing a European bike for me in the U.S. is going to be a PITA, and that's from my own personal experience and my own thinking. I could be wrong, but I don't want to take the risk (anymore).

I'm very new to the world of cycling. Ignoring my childhood, I bought my very first bicycle in over twenty years during the pandemic; I got a Brompton folding bike, and I had a blast riding that thing during the first few months. Long story short, I was in a car accident where my Brompton got damaged; a lot of broken pieces, the fork was slightly bent (riding it, the bike would swerve to the left), and it wouldn't fold/lock properly. The rear assembly might have also been damaged, and to this day I don't know if it's safe to ride it. I fixed and replace the pieces that I could by ordering the parts from perennial cycles. I took the Brompton to a LBS for insurance claims and to get the fork replaced, but the REI "master technician" couldn't determine if the fork was bent or not because his alignment tool wouldn't fit in the narrow fork. I tried to order a fork from brilliantbikes in UK, but they wouldn't ship it to the US (some bs about brexit i think). I finally found a used fork on ebay, and I replaced it myself. I tried to replace the rear assembly, but Brompton doesn't sell those (you have to get it replaced by an authorized service shop, more bs). There is only one Brompton store (Cycleast) in Austin where I could take my bike to. Initially they were eager to help, but they then stopped replying to my emails, and that's when I gave up. I haven't touched my Brompton in almost a year. Yes, some of it had to do with the supply chain issues, but also the fact that there just aren't that many Bromptons in Texas.

The Tout Terrain Silkroad I ordered comes with a Pinion gearbox, and that thing requires a special kind of frame. If something were to go wrong, would I be able to get it fixed? How long would it take? There are no Tout Terrain dealers in Texas, and I'm not sure about Pinion. My guess is that it would cost me weeks and months, and I don't want to deal with that. I should have known better, and I blame myself, but I was hoping that things would improve after the pandemic. The way things are going with the war, it wouldn't surprise me if things got a lot worse than before.

DonkeyShow

Amazon lets you cancel as late as it being out for local delivery.

unterhausen

I don't know if you have noticed, but we are under spammer attack and I accidentally banned you. You may get a system message or PM to that effect. Hopefully I restored everything, let me know if there is a problem.

It's an aluminum frame right? Like all aluminum frames, it doesn't take much damage before it can't be fixed. Most frames are uneconomic to fix after you are hit by a car, even steel frames. The pinion is going to have to go back to Europe for servicing, I think. People with Rohloffs don't have much trouble with sending their hubs back to Germany, and that's a more involved process. If you are really worried about issues like that, derailleur drivetrains can be serviced everywhere in the world without shipping stuff to Germany.

I think your Brompton was a special case. I don't know why the bike shop wouldn't help you, but most shops aren't great about transacting over email. I know this is a broad generalization, but it sure sounds like your Brompton was uneconomic to fix. If it was the other party's insurance paying I would have gotten a new bike.

spelger

That you believe i have reinforced the point made by you is only your opinion. i listed those only because i could only guess what your criteria was; that the OP did not actually pedal a bike. none of those other posts i listed involved peddling a bike either. however, my opinion is that they do belong in the general category and the do belong on BF because they all involve bikes in some way, that is what this site is for.

as for your last paragraph, you may believe that the post does not belong here but apparently the moderators don't agree with you.

but enough of this, we will just have to agree to disagree.

yesterday i went for a ride through a few neighborhoods, one of them happens to be a rich area. i was surprised to see that the road quality was very poor, lots of large cracks, like an inch and a half wide. i can bunny hop some but when going up the climbs i cannot so i felt each and every one. i'd think that wiht the HOA fees that i know these people pay they can afford some crack filler.

pdlamb

I think this is an apples and oranges question. Damage from an accident? You should have hit the insurance company up for a new bike instead of piece-mealing it out. Don't want a Pinion? Why did you want one in the first place? Has that changed? The Pinion likely is a lot more bullet-proof than any frame if hit by a car.

70sSanO

As others have said, you should probably see if you can cancel your order by contacting them directly. There is a chance that the leadtime to build a Pinion compliant frame might be an issue. Since it is a gearbox and not just a standard BB, I'm guessing that might be custom enough that cancelling the order might be problematic.

If you can't cancel, contact Pinion North America and see what services they offer in your area; also ask about long term product support. It may not be much different that mtb suspension rebuilds. I "think" some mfg require that the fork is sent in to perform service and warranty work. Being informed before service is required is important.

After that, just ride the bike and don't worry about the what ifs.

John