Calories and cycling
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At the risk of potentially sending some readers to the hospital with my hard core advice, I have found for me the best exercise to lose weight is high intensity training, not low intensity. FOR ME, exercising at a quick pace for short durations is more effective than long, slow workouts. If you are interested, check out HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). My best workouts are less than an hour. Instead of plodding along for 2 hours on your bike, try hammering away for a full minute, then back off to an easy pace for 2-3 minutes....then repeat for 30 minutes. Hill repeats are good for this kind of workout. Find a good hill and climb it as fast as your can for a minute or two, then turn around and coast down. Catch your breath for a few moments and then repeat. Long, low intensity workouts do not work for me.
But all of this will not likely result in significant weight loss if you are not controlling your eating. There is an old bodybuilder's saying that "abs are made in the kitchen".
But all of this will not likely result in significant weight loss if you are not controlling your eating. There is an old bodybuilder's saying that "abs are made in the kitchen".
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At the risk of potentially sending some readers to the hospital with my hard core advice, I have found for me the best exercise to lose weight is high intensity training, not low intensity. FOR ME, exercising at a quick pace for short durations is more effective than long, slow workouts. If you are interested, check out HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). My best workouts are less than an hour. Instead of plodding along for 2 hours on your bike, try hammering away for a full minute, then back off to an easy pace for 2-3 minutes....then repeat for 30 minutes. Hill repeats are good for this kind of workout. Find a good hill and climb it as fast as your can for a minute or two, then turn around and coast down. Catch your breath for a few moments and then repeat. Long, low intensity workouts do not work for me.
But all of this will not likely result in significant weight loss if you are not controlling your eating. There is an old bodybuilder's saying that "abs are made in the kitchen".
But all of this will not likely result in significant weight loss if you are not controlling your eating. There is an old bodybuilder's saying that "abs are made in the kitchen".
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#154
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"Sprint 8" is a good example of what you are saying here. I must say it is a very good bang for the buck if you are short of training time. The problem with the plodding along approach is that 2 hours doesn't really cut it. Needs more like double that and more to be effective. For most people the slow plodding approach is impractical because of the sheer time required.
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Absolutely. Always best to be realistic about your training volume front the start and then aim to get the most out of that time. For most people that means mostly short, relatively high intensity sessions, although you can over-do it. The Sprint-8 I mentioned is not recommended more than 2-3 times per week.
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From what I’ve read low and high intensity exercise appear to be intertwined. Most people simply don’t have the time to do the vast amounts of low intensity training necessary to build a big aerobic base on that type of training alone. Plus if they don’t do enough high intensity training then their FTP and VO2 max power suffers anyway. So there is a compromise to be made here and I guess that depends on your available training time and end goals. I found this a useful read:-
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...-for-cyclists/
I’ve done a couple of seasons now with reduced amounts of low intensity base training and I am stronger for it, especially early season. My goal events are tough 100 mile timed Sportives, so not ultra-endurance. Also I’m not looking to lose any significant weight in my training.
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...-for-cyclists/
I’ve done a couple of seasons now with reduced amounts of low intensity base training and I am stronger for it, especially early season. My goal events are tough 100 mile timed Sportives, so not ultra-endurance. Also I’m not looking to lose any significant weight in my training.
https://simplifaster.com/articles/ho...le-is-vo2-max/
https://gccoaching.fit/2019/02/18/br...ax-vs-vo2-max/
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Some respond better to volume. No question, few have the time. So, HIIT it is. The TP guy is wrong, if you look at the training of Professionals, they do a ton of volume in the lower zones.....I don't have time to find the reference. So, to say volume is a waste of time is a fool speaking
https://simplifaster.com/articles/ho...le-is-vo2-max/
https://gccoaching.fit/2019/02/18/br...ax-vs-vo2-max/
https://simplifaster.com/articles/ho...le-is-vo2-max/
https://gccoaching.fit/2019/02/18/br...ax-vs-vo2-max/
Henderson says that people typically doing a couple of 2-3 hour low intensity rides per week “base training” throughout the winter months are the ones really wasting their time and would benefit more from some intensity.
Last edited by PeteHski; 07-29-21 at 02:53 PM.
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I very much doubt he’s a fool talking. But maybe he didn’t put enough emphasis on the fact that you have to put in a ton of volume to get a meaningful result from low intensity base training. 16-25 hours a week of base plodding according to Neal Henderson (definitely no fool). So for pretty much anyone who is not a full time pro, there are better balanced strategies. HIIT is the other end of the extreme, but is at least practical. I do something in-between, but always with plenty of intensity all year round.
Henderson says that people typically doing a couple of 2-3 hour low intensity rides per week “base training” throughout the winter months are the ones really wasting their time and would benefit more from some intensity.
Henderson says that people typically doing a couple of 2-3 hour low intensity rides per week “base training” throughout the winter months are the ones really wasting their time and would benefit more from some intensity.
He is a fool.
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Well that’s just your opinion. Not a fact.
I just read your first link and it is interesting. But I don’t think it says how much low intensity work the guy actually had to do to improve his VO2 max by 40% over the 3 years.
I just read your first link and it is interesting. But I don’t think it says how much low intensity work the guy actually had to do to improve his VO2 max by 40% over the 3 years.
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HIIT is the best that time crunched can do but for JIM RUTBERG to claim that this is useless is untrue. Just look at the distribution of professional cyclists.
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Okay if those unlabelled units are hours per week, then he’s doing about 16 hours per week of low intensity volume. Which is no different to what my sources suggest as a minimum for pros to make meaningful gains with that kind of training regime. The 40% gain is also clearly freakish.
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Z2/Z3 isn't plodding, it's pleasant.
Z3/Z4 isn't pleasant, it's fun.
Z4/Z5 isn't fun, it's satisfying.
Z3/Z4 isn't pleasant, it's fun.
Z4/Z5 isn't fun, it's satisfying.
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Yes, which is why fasted exercise is particularly helpful to lose weight. There is no need for the body to use fat if there is plenty of glycogen in the muscle and fast absorbing carbs in the stomach. I think I read somewhere that there can be as much a 3-5 pounds of glycogen stored in muscle. I could be mistaken on the amount though.
Exercise Training and Fasting: Current Insights
Our review of the literature suggests that there is little evidence to support the notion of endurance training and fasting-mediated increases in fat oxidation...
--Zoulah et al, Journal of Sports Medicine, 2020
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https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/trai...nched-athletes
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Everything is controversial to some extent. I would however clarify that I didn't actually say that fasted exercise increases fat metabolism so much as I said that there is no reason for the body to burn fat when both the muscles and stomach are full of fuel.
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Some of y'all are trying to be way too scientific. Eat less and exercise is the winning formula. No excuses. Screw all your ish's. Eat fewer calories and exercise more. Dont' make it so complicated.
Last edited by pgjackson; 07-29-21 at 08:32 PM.
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Any unconventional approach which works and produces positive results is going to be controversial....I've been hammered on these forums many times for saying that I eat instinctively and don't keep track of how many calories I eat and burn and still manage to maintain a lean physique....and yes I also believe in fasted exercise and do it quite regularly...
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Any unconventional approach which works and produces positive results is going to be controversial....I've been hammered on these forums many times for saying that I eat instinctively and don't keep track of how many calories I eat and burn and still manage to maintain a lean physique....and yes I also believe in fasted exercise and do it quite regularly...
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Actually, I lost about 50 pounds eating more and exercising more, but feel free to state your useless generalities as universal truths. Also, the "winning formula" is maintaining whatever regimen it is that's giving you a healthy balance between calories in and activity, that maintaining is the hard part. It's also a balance that's going to vary a lot from person to person. You and I have the relative luxury of being able to engage in high intensity and/or long duration exercise. Lots of people can't tolerate that for a multitude of legitimate reasons.
One thing I'm sure of is moralizing at people doesn't work and is more important to the ego of the moralizer than to the people it's supposed to be "helping." That no excuses rhetoric has been done to death, and look where we are with obesity in this society. If it really was as simple as you say, that obesity wouldn't be happening.
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Any unconventional approach which works and produces positive results is going to be controversial....I've been hammered on these forums many times for saying that I eat instinctively and don't keep track of how many calories I eat and burn and still manage to maintain a lean physique....and yes I also believe in fasted exercise and do it quite regularly...
You're being blasted for insisting that that approach will work for everyone. No one is blasting you for doing what you do. You're getting blasted for telling people what they're doing is wrong because it's not the way you do it.
You seem incapable of understanding that a massive amount of this is genetic, and you seem to think everyone has the same genes as you do.
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True fasting is not good for performance. Going on an endurance ride before break fast certainly helps build mitochondria in size and density and some would consider this intermittent fasting but that is just semantics. A bigger aerobic engine makes you go faster. Going faster requires more fuel. Burning more fuel generally helps lose excessive fat storage. Those pesky mitochondria take a lot of tending to as we get older. There are lots and lots of ways to get and keep them mitochondria humming........I would contend that weight loss really should focus on correcting one's faulty biochemistry and to stop putting the wrong materials into one's mouth
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3883043/
Summary
- Mitochondrial biogenesis is regulated at the transcriptional and post-transcriptional levels of gene expression.
- PGC-1α is a co-transcriptional regulation factor that plays a central role in the regulation of mitochondrial biogenesis.
- Mitochondrial biogenesis is increased, among other factors, by endurance exercise and caloric restriction.
- Understanding the molecular mechanisms regulating mitochondrial biogenesis may provide important therapeutic targets to prevent and treat numerous diseases, such as Type 2 diabetes.
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Actually, I lost about 50 pounds eating more and exercising more, but feel free to state your useless generalities as universal truths. Also, the "winning formula" is maintaining whatever regimen it is that's giving you a healthy balance between calories in and activity, that maintaining is the hard part. It's also a balance that's going to vary a lot from person to person. You and I have the relative luxury of being able to engage in high intensity and/or long duration exercise. Lots of people can't tolerate that for a multitude of legitimate reasons.
One thing I'm sure of is moralizing at people doesn't work and is more important to the ego of the moralizer than to the people it's supposed to be "helping." That no excuses rhetoric has been done to death, and look where we are with obesity in this society. If it really was as simple as you say, that obesity wouldn't be happening.
One thing I'm sure of is moralizing at people doesn't work and is more important to the ego of the moralizer than to the people it's supposed to be "helping." That no excuses rhetoric has been done to death, and look where we are with obesity in this society. If it really was as simple as you say, that obesity wouldn't be happening.
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No it really is that easy. Of course there are medical issues that should be taken into consideration, but for the huge majority of humanity eating less and exercising is the best way to lose weight if that is your goal. We have an obesity problem because of the amounts and types of food people choose to eat. Self control is difficult. I assure you more people have been helped through what you call moralizing than by overcomplicated, touchy-feely weight loss fads.
Last edited by RH Clark; 07-30-21 at 08:11 AM.
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The answer to substance dependence is simple: Just stop using the stuff and live normally for the rest of your life.
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I don't recommend this method, but I had a serious health issue that resulted in a nearly complete loss of appetite. I lost more than 50 pounds in a month. (I wasn't eating at all). Now, people just tell me that I look great. No one asks if I'm OK. (I'm really not) I finally look like a cyclilst.