Considering a used Trek?
#251
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
#253
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
last night, I think some of the posts on this page were on the last page or something. (I have 30/page set up)
I was also weirded out a bit that I couldn't find the thread on the forum and had to go to my profile to find it. Now it's on the front page.
Alright, who's manipulating time and space, and can you go back in time and slap the Trek technician in the head when he or she is laying up my frame?
I was also weirded out a bit that I couldn't find the thread on the forum and had to go to my profile to find it. Now it's on the front page.
Alright, who's manipulating time and space, and can you go back in time and slap the Trek technician in the head when he or she is laying up my frame?
#254
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That's how warranty works. Sucks, but that's life. What might help you is finding someone that works at Trek (and has influence over these things) to maybe nudge them a bit...
I bought a 3-year-old Madone. Raced on it for a year. Won five crits on it. Doing hills one day, I felt some play in the cranks.
"Crap. My cranks are loose."
"Holy ~*@%!!! The BB is busted out of the frame!"
It turns out that I somehow broke the BB shell free from the frame just by pedaling it. I thought they were made for that.
Of course, Trek will have nothing to do with a warranty because I'm a 2nd owner. Even though it's clearly a quality issue (nothing I could do from the outside to bust that loose). They built it poorly and won't stand behind it, just because they were lucky enough to have the bike change hands once before it broke.
They are offering a crash replacement of 20% off. Yippie. I think anyone that can't manage 20% off MSRP on new kit probably isn't trying hard enough.
I went through the shop warranty channel. Denied.
I went through the web warranty channel. Crickets.
I called and spoke with their support staff, and got transferred to our district rep. I told him about how I've put Trek on the podium a bunch of times and want to continue. I told him how I have a team buy coming up where I can inexpensively start putting another brand up on the podium.
"No warranty. Sorry, you're not the original owner."
"No, we won't repair it either -- we don't repair broken BB shells."
"Ok, so you're telling me I can either turn this poorly built $3500 frame in for a crash replacement or throw it in the trash?"
"Correct."
"Crap. My cranks are loose."
"Holy ~*@%!!! The BB is busted out of the frame!"
It turns out that I somehow broke the BB shell free from the frame just by pedaling it. I thought they were made for that.
Of course, Trek will have nothing to do with a warranty because I'm a 2nd owner. Even though it's clearly a quality issue (nothing I could do from the outside to bust that loose). They built it poorly and won't stand behind it, just because they were lucky enough to have the bike change hands once before it broke.
They are offering a crash replacement of 20% off. Yippie. I think anyone that can't manage 20% off MSRP on new kit probably isn't trying hard enough.
I went through the shop warranty channel. Denied.
I went through the web warranty channel. Crickets.
I called and spoke with their support staff, and got transferred to our district rep. I told him about how I've put Trek on the podium a bunch of times and want to continue. I told him how I have a team buy coming up where I can inexpensively start putting another brand up on the podium.
"No warranty. Sorry, you're not the original owner."
"No, we won't repair it either -- we don't repair broken BB shells."
"Ok, so you're telling me I can either turn this poorly built $3500 frame in for a crash replacement or throw it in the trash?"
"Correct."
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#255
Quarq shill
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Yeah, but would you perform a "good will" repair on a used car not purchased from your business? A car that you knew had been driven particularly hard by someone you also know is probably unlikely to buy new from you in the future. Where is the incentive? Good will repairs are used to retain good customers.
Bikes don't have mileage/time based warranties. Had the OP been willing to pay the cost of a ticket to "new bikeville", the OP's post would have been about how Trek upgraded him to a brand new 5.2 frame at no cost when his old one failed!
I own a shop and have yet to see anyone who had a valid warranty treated unfairly by Trek. Same goes for Felt, KHS and Waterford/Gunnar. A few years ago Waterford had problems with primer adherence, and the paint fell off. They repainted frames under warranty. But would you expect them to do the same to a Waterford someone picked up used? I wouldn't. It isn't fair to the people willing to pay extra for the security of a warranty.
Bikes don't have mileage/time based warranties. Had the OP been willing to pay the cost of a ticket to "new bikeville", the OP's post would have been about how Trek upgraded him to a brand new 5.2 frame at no cost when his old one failed!
I own a shop and have yet to see anyone who had a valid warranty treated unfairly by Trek. Same goes for Felt, KHS and Waterford/Gunnar. A few years ago Waterford had problems with primer adherence, and the paint fell off. They repainted frames under warranty. But would you expect them to do the same to a Waterford someone picked up used? I wouldn't. It isn't fair to the people willing to pay extra for the security of a warranty.
b. The first time I was in your shop as a new biker, it wasn't Trek I had to worry about. It was the two condescending employees which almost turned me off of riding bikes because I couldn't afford what they suggested initially and wanted some new parts to fix up my older 12 speed Miyata( to make sure I enjoyed riding first). This was right around the time you took over the shop IIRC, but the point is, since those guys didn't take care of me initially, I drove to Dayton or Cincy to do business.....and don't hesitate to tell people about my experience to this day. So similar to WR, whether it's one bike or a hundred bikes, Trek is going to lose some business because of this thread. It's not like he crashed it and was looking for a replacement; a 3 year old bike fell apart and Trek won't even extend to courtesy to look it over to see if they 'may' have done something wrong. It's not about original owner when there's a potential manufacturing defect IMO.
c. as for the Waterford paint, yes, I would expect them to repaint my used bike if they knew it was a problem. That is something that was noted wrong from the factory, not something caused by my negligence.
#256
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There is no money in making a product last forever - physically, technologically, or cosmetically. Just bite the bullet now. Either way you were going to upgrade eventually....
#257
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We are all consumers. Not holding the companies who's merchandise we spend 1000s and 1000s of dollars with to a higher standard, giving them incentive to treat us better is just moronical.
I like this thread for that reason alone.
Love the companies that warranty everything, hate those that dont.
I like this thread for that reason alone.
Love the companies that warranty everything, hate those that dont.
#258
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Of course if you race it and it fails you're treated to "well of course it failed...you RACED it" by all manner of people. This seems odd to me.
No business plans their line around resale BTW, but they all know the secondary market is important in keeping the price up for new sales. Especially on their high end products. Or do you really believe that if a Madone was selling for $300 after three years that they could support their current price structure?
I roll through a lot of inventory and I wouldn't by a bike that had no/low resale value. I'm reasonably sure that if I put up a poll here asking that question, over 90% of the people here would agree with me. We're talking Madones, not Pilots. You and I know the purchase considerations, resale time frame, and market are quite different between the two.
BTW it's economy of scale (not economics), a theory that applies to production costs, not tiny income streams.
That economics class seems more and more appropriate. Here's an excellent start:
#259
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#260
30 YR Wrench
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Resale is what it is. But Trek doesn't lose sleep about it. I promise. But, if it makes you feel better, I'll be sure to ask my Trek rep when he's in the shop tomorrow about how many corporate meetings are held at Trek concerning the value of used Madones.
Neither their media kit, nor the site I referred you to makes a single mention of your little gold star. And I'm not sure how the little gold star impacts audience ethnicity. But if you want to feel that buying a little star makes you a better person than WR, then don't let me stop you.
A personal anecdote:
I spent 7 years from 1993-2000 on the road out of Nashville with some seriously famous artists. I've played on the Grand Ole Opry a half dozen times with three different multi-platinum artists. I've played stadiums, festivals and arenas where 30,000+ people paid to see the show. And while that was the case, I was treated very well by companies who wanted their products in my hands. But had I never gotten past the local/regional level, I doubt Fender, Gibson, Parker, D'Addario, Seymour Duncan and others would've given me the time of day much less offered to give me a new instrument or other product when something happened to one of theirs I bought used because I was too cheap to buy a new one. Even if I told them I was the local hotshot who played really fast in places where dozens of people showed up and watched for free.
#262
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
I don't care if I influence one would-be-Trek purchase or 100, but I'm unhappy with how my year on a Trek ended, and I'll share it.
#263
Senior Member
The interesting paradox of the internet, let's call it "The Troll's Paradox" since it is closely related to how an internet troll operates. To show you are disinterested in what other's have to say, you have to post a "yawn" showing that you cared enough to click on the link.
Most of the time, the "yawn" post isn't really to display disinterest, regardless of it's actual written content, but to hide one's disdain of another's opinion by filling the conversation with meaningless one word posts rather than simply ignoring the person, or providing a meaningful contribution. Kind of impolite, if you ask me...
But nobody's asking, so I'll just post this along with the meaningless "yawn" post to feed the "yawn" troll. Because I'm bored.
Fascinating conversation though. On one hand, a pissed off, hot shot, local amateur racer who thinks he deserves a special exception to his used bike's warranty policy because he races good and spends a lot of time on teh internets. On the other, a bike shop owner who is trying to protect his business model from freeloaders. Who will win the internet?!
Most of the time, the "yawn" post isn't really to display disinterest, regardless of it's actual written content, but to hide one's disdain of another's opinion by filling the conversation with meaningless one word posts rather than simply ignoring the person, or providing a meaningful contribution. Kind of impolite, if you ask me...
But nobody's asking, so I'll just post this along with the meaningless "yawn" post to feed the "yawn" troll. Because I'm bored.
Fascinating conversation though. On one hand, a pissed off, hot shot, local amateur racer who thinks he deserves a special exception to his used bike's warranty policy because he races good and spends a lot of time on teh internets. On the other, a bike shop owner who is trying to protect his business model from freeloaders. Who will win the internet?!
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#264
slow up hills
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Resale is what it is. But Trek doesn't lose sleep about it. I promise. But, if it makes you feel better, I'll be sure to ask my Trek rep when he's in the shop tomorrow about how many corporate meetings are held at Trek concerning the value of used Madones.
I never said it did. I was referring to the link you posted about bikeforums.net's demographic profile. The point I was attempting to make was that this is a very narrow market due the utter lack of diversity here. I'm sorry that wasn't sufficiently clear to you.
I never said it did. I was referring to the link you posted about bikeforums.net's demographic profile. The point I was attempting to make was that this is a very narrow market due the utter lack of diversity here. I'm sorry that wasn't sufficiently clear to you.
2) The demographics of this site are narrow when compared with the demographics of the number of people who drink soda. Not so narrow when compared with the people who ride road bikes. There's a whole segue from here, but that's the beginning of the end of this epic thread.
#266
Senior Member
I dunno. Nobody's cussing yet...
But truly, I think the takeaway here is: 1) waterrockets reserves his right to b**ch to/at whoever he can get to listen, 2) Trek is going to deny his warranty claim and there is not much he can do about it, and 3) buying used bikes has it's disadvantages, regardless of the justice of the situation.
Oh, and I learned a new failure mode for carbon fiber composite bicycle frames. For me, that's the most important. I'll be looking out for it in my current and future CF frames.
But truly, I think the takeaway here is: 1) waterrockets reserves his right to b**ch to/at whoever he can get to listen, 2) Trek is going to deny his warranty claim and there is not much he can do about it, and 3) buying used bikes has it's disadvantages, regardless of the justice of the situation.
Oh, and I learned a new failure mode for carbon fiber composite bicycle frames. For me, that's the most important. I'll be looking out for it in my current and future CF frames.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#267
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Fascinating conversation though. On one hand, a pissed off, hot shot, local amateur racer who thinks he deserves a special exception to his used bike's warranty policy because he races good and spends a lot of time on teh internets. On the other, a bike shop owner who is trying to protect his business model from freeloaders. Who will win the internet?!
I don't think I deserve a special exception, but since I didn't get one, the polarity of my message has changed directions. I spent $1600 on a three-year-old bike that only lasted me a year because Trek built it wrong, and that blows. Now the frame is worthless.
The "fascinating conversation" part is just so I can get some eyeballs on the topic for future conversations (I've already slipped into a couple threads with my soap box).
Win the Internet? I've already won this round, with 5,800 views.
Last edited by waterrockets; 12-16-09 at 01:36 PM.
#268
gmt
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You were half right about the yawn. The other half is an expression of this:
I am getting tired of seeing this thing go in circles.
(overly theatrical yawning scene)
P.P.S. this thread needs more Rodney
I am getting tired of seeing this thing go in circles.
(overly theatrical yawning scene)
P.P.S. this thread needs more Rodney
#269
Senior Member
You have my character down wrong. Pissed off, hoped to get some warranty help from Trek (understanding their policy going in -- I'd be stupid not to try, since other companies have done it), and now I'm taking to the streets with my message about Trek quality.
I don't think I deserve a special exception, but since I didn't get one, the polarity of my message has changed directions. I spent $1600 on a three-year-old bike that only lasted me a year because Trek built it wrong, and that blows. Now the frame is worthless.
The "fascinating conversation" part is just so I can get some eyeballs on the topic for future conversations (I've already slipped into a couple threads with my soap box).
Win the Internet? I've already won this round, with 5,800 views.
I don't think I deserve a special exception, but since I didn't get one, the polarity of my message has changed directions. I spent $1600 on a three-year-old bike that only lasted me a year because Trek built it wrong, and that blows. Now the frame is worthless.
The "fascinating conversation" part is just so I can get some eyeballs on the topic for future conversations (I've already slipped into a couple threads with my soap box).
Win the Internet? I've already won this round, with 5,800 views.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#270
Has coddling tendencies.
Fascinating conversation though. On one hand, a pissed off, hot shot, local amateur racer who thinks he deserves a special exception to his used bike's warranty policy because he races good and spends a lot of time on teh internets. On the other, a bike shop owner who is trying to protect his business model from freeloaders. Who will win the internet?!
#271
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
#272
Has coddling tendencies.
Unless and until there's a rash of BB shell failures from a variety of makes and models, I'm sticking with the belief that Trek is the only one with this particular problem.
#273
Herasmus B Draggin
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You have my character down wrong. Pissed off, hoped to get some warranty help from Trek (understanding their policy going in -- I'd be stupid not to try, since other companies have done it), and now I'm taking to the streets with my message about Trek quality.
I don't think I deserve a special exception, but since I didn't get one, the polarity of my message has changed directions. I spent $1600 on a three-year-old bike that only lasted me a year because Trek built it wrong, and that blows. Now the frame is worthless.
I don't think I deserve a special exception, but since I didn't get one, the polarity of my message has changed directions. I spent $1600 on a three-year-old bike that only lasted me a year because Trek built it wrong, and that blows. Now the frame is worthless.
5800+ views and not a single soul has posted a similar story to yours? Where are all the people who've had BB problems like yours? You claim this was a pervasive quality issue which is why, regardless of warranty status, Trek should give you a new one. Where are all the hapless Trek victims? You're sounding more and more like a spurned lover than a reasonable person.
You are passionate, but you have not persuaded me. And I doubt others as well.
__________________
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Last edited by One Way Rider; 12-16-09 at 02:01 PM.
#274
Senior Member
I said that this is a failure mode, not that it is an actual failure seen by a lot of people. There are lots of failure modes, some of which happen before others. Any frame that uses a metal sleeve bonded to the CF frame will have this failure mode. The question is whether the frame lasts long enough to see this failure, or if something fails in front of it.
For example, an airplane has a failure mode of a wing coming off. But you don't see this happen much because it's been designed in such a way that other parts of the aircraft fail first, taking the plane out of service long before the wing will come off.
*if you caught my original edit, I am not sure anymore it was the bike I said it was originally.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 12-16-09 at 02:05 PM.
#275
Senior Member
irrelevant
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter