After 15 years, I"m done buying Trek bikes...
07-30-10, 03:53 PM
#51
Warrior Cyclist
Thread Starter
To answer your question...I never expected they would replace the frame if it was not a structural issue. I never expected a totally free paint job, but that would have been nice. What I think might be an acceptable solution would have been to at least say "We're sorry your not happy with the paint on your custom bike." and possibly offer to repaint the yellow parts of the frame a darker color if I paid for shipping the frame and fork out and back to them. But since they chose to reply like they did... I'm choosing to not buy anymore Trek bikes. I will most certainly keep riding the bike, maybe the crack will keep getting bigger as it quickly has and I'll choose to say "screw the warranty altogether" and just have someone repaint the whole thing a different color at some point . Who knows. But it won't stop me from being upset with Trek.
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07-30-10, 03:53 PM
#52
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Body panels are not made from carbon fiber. They require a different prep and if Trek chose a special lay up method/gelcoat that compromised long term paint adhesion then it was their call and they laid out the warranty.
Fact: Paint is older than a year. Fact: Warranty was for one year.
Don't like it? Buy another brand to spite them. Happy with the bike? Ride the piss out of it.
Fact: Paint is older than a year. Fact: Warranty was for one year.
Don't like it? Buy another brand to spite them. Happy with the bike? Ride the piss out of it.
07-30-10, 03:55 PM
#53
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Thread Starter
I've got a '08 Madone, and haven't experienced any cracking paint. Seems older Treks with standard paint don't have these issues either. In other words, the poor paint quality seems to be rather specific to the Project One bike.
Even though the warranty on paint is only one year, the fact that it's cracking on this Project One bike is total bull crap. To say that cracking paint can't be prevented is even further bull crap. I worked in the automotive industry for many years, and I can tell you with certainty that automotive body panels flex WAY more than any carbon fiber bike from Trek does -- and you don't see paint cracking all over the place after only one year on modern-day cars.
The fact of the matter is that Trek isn't using enough flex agent in it's paint (it's not expensive to add) for the Project One bikes, and their choice of poor quality paint is the problem.
To the OP: I know this is no consolation, but a quick google search will reveal a few reputable bicycle painters. Despite the poor quality paint on your Trek, you've still got a high-quality bicycle. Perhaps at some point down the road you could decide to reward your bike with a new paint job?
Even though the warranty on paint is only one year, the fact that it's cracking on this Project One bike is total bull crap. To say that cracking paint can't be prevented is even further bull crap. I worked in the automotive industry for many years, and I can tell you with certainty that automotive body panels flex WAY more than any carbon fiber bike from Trek does -- and you don't see paint cracking all over the place after only one year on modern-day cars.
The fact of the matter is that Trek isn't using enough flex agent in it's paint (it's not expensive to add) for the Project One bikes, and their choice of poor quality paint is the problem.
To the OP: I know this is no consolation, but a quick google search will reveal a few reputable bicycle painters. Despite the poor quality paint on your Trek, you've still got a high-quality bicycle. Perhaps at some point down the road you could decide to reward your bike with a new paint job?
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07-30-10, 03:58 PM
#54
Senior Member
I can understand the OP's frustration:
-He has several other CF Trek's with standard paint jobs which do not exhibit the issue
-He has paid extra to have this bike specially painted, and now finds that the paint is cracking
-Trek acknowledges that this is a known issue, yet their answer is "tough luck"
If they know it's a problem (either on light colored paint or on Project Ones), I would be curious to know if they're having the same issue on the standard paint jobs from the same year, same frame, similar colors. It's extremely frustrating when a company acknowledges an issue is a known problem, then refuses to do anything about it (despite what the warranty states).
I see it this way, you knew you made a mistake, yet now refuse to fix it, and would rather hide behind the warranty terms. As a consumer i'd much rather purchase products from companies who will try harder to make me happy. I'm not saying they should bend the rules for everyone, but perhaps offering to repaint the frame, or offering a new frame at Trek's cost would have made the OP happy. Either way, very little cost to Trek (probably selling him a new frame at cost would be cheaper, since stripping, painting and finishing the frame would be labor intensive). They were many things they could have done, but brushing him off was probably the worst approach they could take.
After the other Trek related postings we've seen here, i'd be hesitant to purchase their products in the future.
-He has several other CF Trek's with standard paint jobs which do not exhibit the issue
-He has paid extra to have this bike specially painted, and now finds that the paint is cracking
-Trek acknowledges that this is a known issue, yet their answer is "tough luck"
If they know it's a problem (either on light colored paint or on Project Ones), I would be curious to know if they're having the same issue on the standard paint jobs from the same year, same frame, similar colors. It's extremely frustrating when a company acknowledges an issue is a known problem, then refuses to do anything about it (despite what the warranty states).
I see it this way, you knew you made a mistake, yet now refuse to fix it, and would rather hide behind the warranty terms. As a consumer i'd much rather purchase products from companies who will try harder to make me happy. I'm not saying they should bend the rules for everyone, but perhaps offering to repaint the frame, or offering a new frame at Trek's cost would have made the OP happy. Either way, very little cost to Trek (probably selling him a new frame at cost would be cheaper, since stripping, painting and finishing the frame would be labor intensive). They were many things they could have done, but brushing him off was probably the worst approach they could take.
After the other Trek related postings we've seen here, i'd be hesitant to purchase their products in the future.
07-30-10, 04:00 PM
#55
Senior Member
My Madone has cracks in the paint at tube and lug joints. Doesn't matter: I have ridden it enough in the past three years that it has paint chips everywhere. Still a good bike.
I view paint chips and other cosmetic injuries to the bike as proof that they are my bikes. What else is there to differentiate my stock frame from the same frame in the same paint job under the next bloke? A clean, well working, but well worn bike is something to take pride in. Clean and well working means you care for your machine. Well worn means you ride it hard.
I view paint chips and other cosmetic injuries to the bike as proof that they are my bikes. What else is there to differentiate my stock frame from the same frame in the same paint job under the next bloke? A clean, well working, but well worn bike is something to take pride in. Clean and well working means you care for your machine. Well worn means you ride it hard.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
07-30-10, 04:02 PM
#56
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Send Trek this thread. See if you get any action from it.
A pissed customer tells 10? Yeah maybe 20 years ago. A pissed customer now can tell 100,000+
If this REALLY is a bee in your bonnet my best advice is that you rolled over. You are not making a big enough deal out of this to satisfy your frustration. Take it to the next level.
A pissed customer tells 10? Yeah maybe 20 years ago. A pissed customer now can tell 100,000+
If this REALLY is a bee in your bonnet my best advice is that you rolled over. You are not making a big enough deal out of this to satisfy your frustration. Take it to the next level.
07-30-10, 04:03 PM
#57
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I still can't believe this is a universal problem. Does the paint on a Parlee, Calfee or Krumpton go after a year?
Still, it makes my not exciting Ti frame - which looks pretty much exactly like it did 6 yrs ago - look pretty good.
Still, it makes my not exciting Ti frame - which looks pretty much exactly like it did 6 yrs ago - look pretty good.
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07-30-10, 04:11 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
It's my day off, so I'm able to reply to some of these posts and follow the thread a bit. BTW...HEY SpongeDad!! How are you and the misses? You've seen two of my bikes, so you know they are well maintained. Hoping to get back east one of these years and ride with some of you again.
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07-30-10, 04:13 PM
#59
Flyin' under the radar
You're right. Never in the history of mankind has there ever been a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Sarcasm aside, if you've ever had an opportunity spend some time around a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels, you'd know that they do flex, and they flex significantly more than a carbon fiber bicycle frame, and you'd also know that the paint on said carbon fiber body panels doesn't crack after a year.
My point remains the same: paint cracking on carbon fiber bikes can be prevented (despite Trek's claim it can't) through the proper utilization of flex agents. Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong in this regard?
Sarcasm aside, if you've ever had an opportunity spend some time around a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels, you'd know that they do flex, and they flex significantly more than a carbon fiber bicycle frame, and you'd also know that the paint on said carbon fiber body panels doesn't crack after a year.
My point remains the same: paint cracking on carbon fiber bikes can be prevented (despite Trek's claim it can't) through the proper utilization of flex agents. Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong in this regard?
07-30-10, 04:15 PM
#60
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cycle17, One point, as far as Trek is concerned, you bought 8 bikes in 15 years. They don't count used bikes. Still, you're one helluva customer and they should have tried to work something out with you. If you can not gain satisfaction, there is one other consideration. Take a picture of you with your new #9 bike and send it to the Pres with a note that says "Remember me? I'm the fellow who asked you to repair a paint crack in my Project 1 and you refused after I had purchased 8 Trek bikes in the last 15 years. Well here's a picture of me with my 9th new bike a_____________________ . Have a nice day. "
He may not read it, but you can still smile when you send the note.
He may not read it, but you can still smile when you send the note.
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07-30-10, 04:16 PM
#61
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You're right. Never in the history of mankind has there ever been a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Sarcasm aside, if you've ever had an opportunity spend some time around a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels, you'd know that they do flex, and they flex significantly more than a carbon fiber bicycle frame, and you'd also know that the paint on said carbon fiber body panels doesn't crack after a year.
My point remains the same: paint cracking on carbon fiber bikes can be prevented (despite Trek's claim it can't) through the proper utilization of flex agents. Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong in this regard?
Sarcasm aside, if you've ever had an opportunity spend some time around a vehicle with carbon fiber body panels, you'd know that they do flex, and they flex significantly more than a carbon fiber bicycle frame, and you'd also know that the paint on said carbon fiber body panels doesn't crack after a year.
My point remains the same: paint cracking on carbon fiber bikes can be prevented (despite Trek's claim it can't) through the proper utilization of flex agents. Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong in this regard?
07-30-10, 04:20 PM
#62
Senior Member
It boggles my mind that people buy a bike with an expressed limited warranty (or an explicit lack of warranty) and then call and expect Trek to make a "special exception" for them.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
07-30-10, 04:25 PM
#63
Warrior Cyclist
Thread Starter
cycle17, One point, as far as Trek is concerned, you bought 8 bikes in 15 years. They don't count used bikes. Still, you're one helluva customer and they should have tried to work something out with you. If you can not gain satisfaction, there is one other consideration. Take a picture of you with your new #9 bike and send it to the Pres with a note that says "Remember me? I'm the fellow who asked you to repair a paint crack in my Project 1 and you refused after I had purchased 8 Trek bikes in the last 15 years. Well here's a picture of me with my 9th new bike a_____________________ . Have a nice day. "
He may not read it, but you can still smile when you send the note.
He may not read it, but you can still smile when you send the note.
But honestly...I'm done dealing with Trek period. The Pres. didn't respond to my letter and had some customer service rep respond instead. The thread has been interesting and amusing, but really just serves as a warning for other perspective Trek/Project One buyers. One thing Mr Beanz said I agree with is know the warranty policy. Because from my experience I can tell you that is what Trek will quote you when you have an issue outside the normal. I will certainly keep riding the bike, I'm a cyclist and I'm going to keep riding it, like I ride my other Treks that don't have cracks in the paint.
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07-30-10, 04:25 PM
#64
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Body panels are not made from carbon fiber. They require a different prep and if Trek chose a special lay up method/gelcoat that compromised long term paint adhesion then it was their call and they laid out the warranty.
Fact: Paint is older than a year. Fact: Warranty was for one year.
Don't like it? Buy another brand to spite them. Happy with the bike? Ride the piss out of it.
Fact: Paint is older than a year. Fact: Warranty was for one year.
Don't like it? Buy another brand to spite them. Happy with the bike? Ride the piss out of it.
07-30-10, 04:27 PM
#65
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Thread Starter
No sh**. Of course the cracks can be prevented. But not with the paint that Trek decided to use, which is a lightweight, minimalistic formulation. They, of course, choose the lightweight, minimalistic paint to satisfy the requirements that this bike be a lightweight, minimalistic racing frame. It's not intended to be a wall trophy. Want a wall trophy? Go Ti or get a paintjob by a guy who specializes in wall trophy paintjobs.
It boggles my mind that people buy a bike with an expressed limited warranty (or an explicit lack of warranty) and then call and expect Trek to make a "special exception" for them.
It boggles my mind that people buy a bike with an expressed limited warranty (or an explicit lack of warranty) and then call and expect Trek to make a "special exception" for them.
I don't race anymore, but I ride a lot.
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07-30-10, 04:28 PM
#66
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No sh**. Of course the cracks can be prevented. But not with the paint that Trek decided to use, which is a lightweight, minimalistic formulation. They, of course, choose the lightweight, minimalistic paint to satisfy the requirements that this bike be a lightweight, minimalistic racing frame. It's not intended to be a wall trophy. Want a wall trophy? Go Ti or get a paintjob by a guy who specializes in wall trophy paintjobs.
It boggles my mind that people buy a bike with an expressed limited warranty (or an explicit lack of warranty) and then call and expect Trek to make a "special exception" for them.
It boggles my mind that people buy a bike with an expressed limited warranty (or an explicit lack of warranty) and then call and expect Trek to make a "special exception" for them.
07-30-10, 04:31 PM
#67
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07-30-10, 04:32 PM
#68
going roundy round
I'm getting this looked at tomorrow. It's a '08 5.2. I just noticed it last weekend.
For the record, I've never adjusted anything on the FD.
I'll let you know how that goes.
For the record, I've never adjusted anything on the FD.
I'll let you know how that goes.
07-30-10, 04:35 PM
#70
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I should take some pix of my '00 5200. It's got paint peeling off in big chunks. Trek refused to warranty that too.
07-30-10, 04:37 PM
#71
Senior Member
point = missed.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
07-30-10, 04:52 PM
#73
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It's my day off, so I'm able to reply to some of these posts and follow the thread a bit. BTW...HEY SpongeDad!! How are you and the misses? You've seen two of my bikes, so you know they are well maintained. Hoping to get back east one of these years and ride with some of you again.
If you'll forgive the advice - you need a beater, steel cyclocross bike. I tried cross this fall and absolutely loved it. Each race is a gonzo effort, a fall in the mud, a laugh with friends and a beer. Can't beat that.
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“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
07-30-10, 04:53 PM
#74
Senior Member
I'll give you a hint. It's about tradeoffs.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
07-30-10, 05:04 PM
#75
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Seriously, I think I'd just ignore it and ride the piss out of it. It almost looks like a paint mistake from the factory.
And I'd have them inspect the seat tube around the front D for cracks or damage. Very sensitive to excess torque.
Last edited by Hunt-man; 07-30-10 at 05:07 PM.
