2Fer

I picked up these NOS vintage Weinmann rims last week here in town. I am wondering if they are a good choice for loaded touring. They are both 700c, 36-hole, one is 20.3mm wide, the other is 22.5mm in width, and have no bead. Since the rims are just a part of the cost of a complete set of wheels, should I build them up into a set of touring wheels, or sell them off as-is on the Vintage Forum and use the money to put towards some other more modern rims, like Velocity or Mavic? (My frame/fork is set up for 700c and I run 32mm width tires).
2fer

Carbonfiberboy 

Wow. IIRC that's what I had on my Legnano in '63. Yeah, sell 'em to someone who's going to ride L'Eroica and buy something modern. Then you can get modern tires. Modern rims are also much stiffer, so easier on spokes, big factor when touring.

Philly Tandem

I had really good experience with the old Weinmann concave rims on my first tourer - a Windsor Touring Elite - back in the early 80s (bought while I was in high school with money I saved up). They were a pretty well-regarded rim at the time.

fietsbob

I recall them lacking much of a hook bead seat, so tire could blow off , unless the Belgian version revised the extrusion die.
I can't tell from pic #2.

2Fer

Fietsbob, you are correct, there is no hook bead seat on the inside of the rim, they are smooth. My '81 Miyata 1000 Araya rims are similar, and I did have some trouble if I tried to use tires that needed more than 70# or so pressure. Thanks,
2fer

John N

I concur with what briwasson said. I had no problems with my Weinmann Concaves back in the 80s. Also, the rims lasted so much longer than today's rims. I would ride up to 11k a year doing fully loaded touring back then and never had a problem with them. That said, I would probably also sell them so someone who was into Vintage could get them and you could get something maybe more suited to what you need.

Doug64

I just sold my PX10 which had one set of clinchers and one set of tubular wheels. I used the clinchers for training and they were also used recreationally to about 2000. I built them with double butted spokes, Normandy hubs, and Weinmann rims. Never had any problems with those wheels. Did some loaded tours on the PX10. If you look close you will notice the Weimann rims The bike was almost new, and I am 40 years younger, However, I still didn't have very much hair!


PS I just found this picture last night and wanted to share it. It really does not add anything to the discussion.

imi

hihi! thanks for the laugh! It's saturday morning here an' I've got to go to work :/ Nice quiet commute in the dark however... (guess this didn't add anything to the discussion either

NoReg

"Modern rims are also much stiffer, so easier on spokes, big factor when touring."

Don't agree with that, it's sorta the other way around, if you build a rim badly enough wrong/poor design, you end up needing to build it really stiff. Add two pounds to the rim weight save 4 spokes. Not to just go all retro grouch, but it is amazing, unless there is a materials breakthrough, how everything new is heavier. So take something like goretex. Great stuff, but not a big breakthrough in weight savings. Take cordura, great stuff, but packcloth was just as good unless you are hauling bags on granite (in which case cordura won't get it done). If it has serious double eyelet design, and at least 36 spokes in a 28, then cherish it.

Don't know about the bead issues. But there is an interesting article here ish:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

about how low pressure has lower system rolling resistance, actually.

I should add I don't know this rim, am just extrapolating from my MA2s

Carbonfiberboy 

MA2s are a modern, double-wall rim. 480g, I believe. Too bad they don't make them anymore. Nice thick unmachined brake track. Biggest problem with them was the centers don't drop enough to make tire changing easy. Open Pros are much nicer, stiffer, and 435g. I run the Ceramic version on my rain bike in 28H. They hold up quite well. For touring, a stiffer rim like a Velocity Deep V at 520g would be killer, though their Aerohead at 425g also builds up nicely and doesn't need much truing IME.

Weinmann's are straight walled, no hook. So you can't run modern tires which, like it says on the box, are designed for hooked rims only. You have to run wire bead 1.25" tires, like we all ran back in the day. You can pump those tires to 90 lbs. just fine.

You can test Heine's theory yourself, very easily. Put your bike on your rollers with the tires at various pressures and observe speed vs. HR or power. Heh. The biggest thing that makes a tire fast is how thin it is. Given tires of equal carcass thickness, more pressure is always faster, no matter the road surface. However, we don't follow that dictum particularly closely, because we also want comfort. So we make compromises, like in everything else. The grail for tire manufacturers is building a thin tire that doesn't flat easily. They're getting a lot better at it as tire technology improves. There was a flash of LD riders running those tires that Heine sells after his article came out. Don't see them much anymore because they're very thin and don't have flat protection, so they flat and cut very easily.

What's the biggest change in car technology? Tires, followed by wheels. Bikes the same, just a little slower due to the small dollar value of the market.

2Fer

Lots of great feedback here, as always, I always appreciate all of your input. These are single wall rims, and on my scale, the wider rim is just under 600g, and the other is around 550g, so that puts them in heavier that the MA2 and Open Pros, which I figured was the case. Factoring in the additional weight that wire bead tires would add will make for a considerably heavier rolling weight, which it seems would be most noticeable on the uphills. I know weight isn't the only factor in the decision process, so unless they are considerably more durable (stronger) it might be best for me to consider something of a more current design.
2fer

Amazing how the cost of upper-end bike tires have almost reached the cost of upper-end car tires........

safariofthemind

Love the picture. Nothing wrong with a little vintage and remembrance of good times had.

ricohman

hmmmm
I also have the same rims! And the same sizes!
We should trade one size each so we can each have a matched set. Then we can both have some wheels to lace this winter.

thumpism 

The narrow one is a model 124 and the wider one is a model 129. I found this zombie thread by searching for other Weinmann rims.

Also, when building wheels with these rims way back when I recall that the welded and ground joints were inconsistently finished. It was not uncommon to find a divot in one or both sides so that braking was affected by a "grab" when the divot got around to the brake pads. Rims with pinned joints could be easily sanded for a smoother joint, if necessary.

bikemig 

I love the pic and the story. At least you weren't touring on the tubulars, . Some folks did but that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

jefnvk

Just curious why one would choose to build wheels with hookless vintage rims? I understand if one already had such a functional wheelset on a bike, but not a new build.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeeesh, no. Crappy rims and crappy tires all in one go. What's not to like?

skrudumra

If they were 26" I would say yes keep the Weinmanns but 700's with 36 spoke is pushing it. I would sell the vintage bike wheels to someone with a vintage build and get the Mavic 40 spoke wheels.

Tourist in MSN

I had a hooked bead weinman concave on one of my bikes, great rim. But someone gave me a used pair that were not hooked, I donated the unhooked ones to a bike charity.

If you use a wire bead (non-folding) tire, you might have better luck with the unhooked rim. But I wanted to be able to use all kinds of tires so that is why I did not keep the non-hooked rims that were given to me.

If you decide to keep them, I would put the wider rim on the back. Then if you decide you got pinch flats in back, you could go up to a 35 or 37mm wide tire while keeping the 32 on front.