Burn it down burn it all down to the ground
#301
Peloton Shelter Dog
#302
Despite all my rage, I am
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I don't think Hamilton ever 'fessed up to doping in his first incident - he'll probably go to the grave denying that.
#304
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It really changed my perspective of riders 'riding well'. I liked Parkin's comment at one point about not being a 'doping virgin'. The tone certainly left the impression on me that doping virgins were about as common in the peloton as as literal virgins.
I can't think of any other pro sport where the line between the athlete and the bank roll is so short. The guy in the car behind the rider is negotiating the sponsors and the riders. If there are no results the sponsor walks and everyone is out of a job maybe tomorrow. Personally I can't imagine that if a major sponsor of say The Colorado Avalanche were to walk that the team would fold at the end of the season.
A bit of apples and oranges but the point is that pro cyclists deal with a a few more stressors than other pro athletes. When a cyclists earning potential for the rest of his career is tied to any given season or even a half season with no guarantees and the DS is in the same boat with the whole team then the need for results is going to always outweigh the risks.
In any other sport would Robbie Hunter still be in the minors and would both he and McEwen be scrambling for a job next year at the 11th hour?
So, aside from a vendetta against former teammates who are still successful and maybe a book titled "Positively Lying Back Stabbing Cheat - How I swindled millions in my quest for undeserved entitlement" I don't see what Floyd is hoping to, or will accomplish. Even without USPS in the early aughts cycling will still be the circus it is, maybe more so.
#305
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Plus since my right knee is having an unfortunate (and somewhat typical) reaction to the Synvisc, it is currently the size of botto's head. I hope that calms down. It is elevated and iced down as we speak. No ride today.
Actually, spinning low gears might not be a bad way to help work off the fluid. I'll be talking to my knee doctor shortly.
Actually, spinning low gears might not be a bad way to help work off the fluid. I'll be talking to my knee doctor shortly.
#307
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#308
Junk Mile Junkie
As if this sport, or any sport is important. Tax dollars spent on regulating and prosecuting violators of what is nothing more than entertainment.
The most asinine part of this thread is that people think drugs don't belong. "It isn't fair". Anyone that thinks the sport is there for the contenders is messed up. It's there for the viewer. The problem is that today's sports can't keep up with today's technologies. So we dumb down the sports to hold onto traditions. Therefore, it's all just a lie anyway. Like it really matters.
The most asinine part of this thread is that people think drugs don't belong. "It isn't fair". Anyone that thinks the sport is there for the contenders is messed up. It's there for the viewer. The problem is that today's sports can't keep up with today's technologies. So we dumb down the sports to hold onto traditions. Therefore, it's all just a lie anyway. Like it really matters.
Last edited by Tulex; 12-27-10 at 11:06 AM.
#309
Peloton Shelter Dog
I'm highly confident that Lance is smart enough to have filed relatively unimpeachable tax returns over the past 15 years. Can they audit him and get money out of him? Hell, they can do that with almost anyone who makes over $100K annually. Can they send him to jail for tax fraud? My guess is that's highly unlikely.
#310
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I'm highly confident that Lance is smart enough to have filed relatively unimpeachable tax returns over the past 15 years. Can they audit him and get money out of him? Hell, they can do that with almost anyone who makes over $100K annually. Can they send him to jail for tax fraud? My guess is that's highly unlikely.
#311
Senior Member
Just pointing out that they are not trying to catch him for doping. Fraud and perjury are worse as they are criminal offenses. And I agree with Tulex, they are spending many thousands of our tax dollars and tons of man hours trying to catch someone cheating on a sport. A complete waste of money. And they're doing it to make a name for themselves and further their careers, which ironically is the same motivation cyclist have to dope.
#312
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Just pointing out that they are not trying to catch him for doping. Fraud and perjury are worse as they are criminal offenses. And I agree with Tulex, they are spending many thousands of our tax dollars and tons of man hours trying to catch someone cheating on a sport. A complete waste of money. And they're doing it to make a name for themselves and further their careers, which ironically is the same motivation cyclist have to dope.
#315
Junk Mile Junkie
This is all about government being totally out of touch with reality. They don't represent our interest in sport anymore than they represent our interests in any other aspect of our lives.
Look at baseball. They knew about doping in baseball back when the balls were flying out of the park. They pressed baseball do do something about it. Baseball, being a bit smarter than the government, and knowing about it too, said ef you to the government. Then, after all the people came back to baseball because of the homerun excitement, and only after, did baseball agree to get involved.
Now, sports is big money. Creates a lot of jobs, income, taxes, etc. Had baseball gone after the dopers before the people came back, baseball would have taken a huge hit, and therefore so would the economy. The government didn't give a crap about that. They wanted to do what they wanted to do. Our best interests? I think not.
Look at baseball. They knew about doping in baseball back when the balls were flying out of the park. They pressed baseball do do something about it. Baseball, being a bit smarter than the government, and knowing about it too, said ef you to the government. Then, after all the people came back to baseball because of the homerun excitement, and only after, did baseball agree to get involved.
Now, sports is big money. Creates a lot of jobs, income, taxes, etc. Had baseball gone after the dopers before the people came back, baseball would have taken a huge hit, and therefore so would the economy. The government didn't give a crap about that. They wanted to do what they wanted to do. Our best interests? I think not.
#316
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
So it's in your best interests if pro cyclists continue to take every increasingly dangerous drugs to stay ahead of their competition?
#317
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This is all about government being totally out of touch with reality. They don't represent our interest in sport anymore than they represent our interests in any other aspect of our lives.
Look at baseball. They knew about doping in baseball back when the balls were flying out of the park. They pressed baseball do do something about it. Baseball, being a bit smarter than the government, and knowing about it too, said ef you to the government. Then, after all the people came back to baseball because of the homerun excitement, and only after, did baseball agree to get involved.
Now, sports is big money. Creates a lot of jobs, income, taxes, etc. Had baseball gone after the dopers before the people came back, baseball would have taken a huge hit, and therefore so would the economy. The government didn't give a crap about that. They wanted to do what they wanted to do. Our best interests? I think not.
Look at baseball. They knew about doping in baseball back when the balls were flying out of the park. They pressed baseball do do something about it. Baseball, being a bit smarter than the government, and knowing about it too, said ef you to the government. Then, after all the people came back to baseball because of the homerun excitement, and only after, did baseball agree to get involved.
Now, sports is big money. Creates a lot of jobs, income, taxes, etc. Had baseball gone after the dopers before the people came back, baseball would have taken a huge hit, and therefore so would the economy. The government didn't give a crap about that. They wanted to do what they wanted to do. Our best interests? I think not.
#318
Senior Member
This is all about doping. The fraud slip-up is nothing more than an opening for the government.
#319
Peloton Shelter Dog
If you could limit the use of pdas to the pros, in my personal view that would be fine. But you can't control it. Amateurs and younger athletes all the way down to the high school level will emulate them, and that is totally unacceptable. You really can't have it, period the end.
#320
Senior Member
Maybe a Doc could chime in but I thought I read somewhere that EPO is genarally regarded to be very safe as long as it isn't abused? It has been a Godsend in treating cancer patients. It's too bad it's mainly know for its abuse because it has helped a lot of people.
#321
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
isn't using it for something other than its intended purpose considered abuse?
and since these guys are using test, hgh, and a host of other things as well this is a bit of an imaginary conversation. even if epo is safe when monitored by a dr. I'm thinking that cat 1 from your local city with delusions of going to the show isn't likely to have the team of experts an Armstrong has.
and since these guys are using test, hgh, and a host of other things as well this is a bit of an imaginary conversation. even if epo is safe when monitored by a dr. I'm thinking that cat 1 from your local city with delusions of going to the show isn't likely to have the team of experts an Armstrong has.
#322
Junk Mile Junkie
I don't care if they do or don't. The outcome of a race doesn't matter to me. It's entertainment. But if you are going to ban drugs out of fairness, then they should also regulate the amount of money teams can spend on training, coaches, nutritionists, equipment, etc. I don't think doping gives anymore of an advantage than having the resources that some teams have.
So should they do drugs? Yes, if they choose to. As pointed out, they could test for it, and make it known. The people that watch the sport would regulate it on their own.
#323
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
You seem to imply that a person has to race, has to dope. It comes down to each person making a choice for himself.
I don't care if they do or don't. The outcome of a race doesn't matter to me. It's entertainment. But if you are going to ban drugs out of fairness, then they should also regulate the amount of money teams can spend on training, coaches, nutritionists, equipment, etc. I don't think doping gives anymore of an advantage than having the resources that some teams have.
So should they do drugs? Yes, if they choose to. As pointed out, they could test for it, and make it known. The people that watch the sport would regulate it on their own.
I don't care if they do or don't. The outcome of a race doesn't matter to me. It's entertainment. But if you are going to ban drugs out of fairness, then they should also regulate the amount of money teams can spend on training, coaches, nutritionists, equipment, etc. I don't think doping gives anymore of an advantage than having the resources that some teams have.
So should they do drugs? Yes, if they choose to. As pointed out, they could test for it, and make it known. The people that watch the sport would regulate it on their own.
#324
Junk Mile Junkie
It isn't, that's my point. The government being involved doesn't represent the peoples interest, only their own.
#325
Senior Member