AlphaDogg

Here's the story:

I got my panniers yesterday. Fully loaded, they caused the rear wheel to make pinging sounds. The bike shop said it was a spoke tension issue. I didn't want to pay for them to true it. So I bought a spoke wrench. I guess I tightened a spoke too much, because it snapped. Took it to the bike shop today to have them install a new spoke and true it. They couldn't true it because the other spokes were too taut. So I bought a wheel from them. Took it home, and noticed the axle was 126mm instead of 132mm that my frame takes. I took it back, but forgot the receipt. I went back home, got the receipt, and took it back. I returned it because they didn't have any 132mm wheels in stock and it would be 7-14 days until they got one in stock. So they put my freewheel and cassette back on my old wheel and said I could use it until I got a new one. The wheel is out of round with a bump where that spoke broke. It is also out of true, but I adjusted my brakes so that's not so much an issue anymore. I have a warranty with Sports Authority (where I purchased it. I know you're thinking "get it at a real bike shop.") They are ordering a new rear wheel and I will have it within the next two weeks (they said around 10 days). I have to live with this out of round wheel until then. It really upsets me . But I guess it's my own fault for thinking I could true a wheel.

SouthFLpix

You should be 'ok' with a wheel that is out of true. The main worry is that you will break more spokes, but that should not be a huge concern if you already have another wheel on order anyway.

Don't give up on learning to true your own wheels. Everyone screws up the first time.

nashcommguy

When reaching this point in my self-maintenance skills I posted an ad offering to pay someone to teach me how to build and true wheels. Like paying for private music lessons.

Started out building a front wheel and when I could do one in an hour...including tensioning he let me take on a rear wheel w/t added complication of 'dishing'. When I could do that in an hour he had a certificate printed up for me saying I am a 'Bona Fide Wheelbuilder with Mad Skillz'. It's hanging on the wall in my bike room. The entire process cost me cost me 150.00. Money well spent. Turns out we both had an affinity for fresh-ground french-pressed coffee and dark beer. Consumed alot during our learning sessions.

He's now one of my best friends and 'go to' wrenches if I get stuck on a bike related problem. His mechanic guru was a tech for the '80 and '84 Olympic cycling teams...of course we didn't go in '80, but if we had he'd have been there. He's a 'retro-grouch' of course.

The three of us have done a number of rides together. The guru always shows up w/his early 70's Bianchi w/it's unbelievable lug work and drop-tube shifting and says things like, "Now this is a ******* bike!" and "Indexed shifting is for poseurs." not to mention, "You don't have to love carbon to respect it."

Sorry, I digressed al little...

AlphaDogg

No it's fine! I love stories!

On topic: Is it safe to do 6 or 12mi per day commuting with 180lbs (my weight plus 40lbs that the panniers may see) or 170lbs (what the panniers will likely see every day) on the out of true, out of round wheel?

AlphaDogg

I got out the spoke wrench, and said to myself "I won't quit until this is true!" I loosened all the spokes, and tightened all of them to be tight enough (not too tight, and not too loose). It took me two hours, but the wheel rolls true. But here's the catch: it's still not round. I rounded off the spoke nipple that the bike shop put on yesterday with the new spoke (it seems to be of lower quality than the ones that came stock on the bike) trying to get it round. So I cut my losses, and left it out of round, but true. It will suffice until I get my new wheel in about 10 days. It will have to survive ~120mi in that time period.

mechBgon

Good job If you didn't do so already, oiling the spoke nipples where they turn against the rim will reduce the amount of torque required to budge them initially. Since you're just doing a short-term fix, just check that your wheel's roundness issues aren't causing the tire to come into contact with your brake pad, which would start eating through your tire.

Tangentially, make sure your spoke wrench is the correct size for your spoke nipples... there are different sizes, and a loose fit makes it more likely you'll round off the nipples.

AlphaDogg

^ I have a park tool spoke wrench with all 3 sizes on it.

zacster

If I can build a 24 spoke, 830g, offset rim rear wheel that is still completely true after 2 years of abuse in New York City, with an overweight rider, anybody can build a wheel. This one came out so well that I thought I could do it for a living, but then I thought about my mortgage, my kids, college...

streetstomper

Why "of course"? 1984 was the beginning of the modern age of bicycling, when the US Olympic cycling team under the late Ed Burke shocked the world by bringing the first "funny bikes" to competition, with disc wheels, cowhorn handlebars, aero helmets and skinsuits and helium-filled tires. That was definitely not a retrogrouch team. The funny bikes gave them their best Olympic games ever, absolutely dominating all of the other teams and shattering records. Although the Soviet bloc boycott didn't hurt.

SouthFLpix

Sounds like the bicycle shop owner in the movie '2 seconds'. Great cycling movie, btw.

Doohickie

Just saw this thread.... All I'll say is, you're learning, AlphaDogg. You're learning. And in pretty much the same way I learned a lot of stuff. Try it, mess it up, fix it a little better, take it to a professional, cheap out and buy the wrench... this all sounds very familiar.

monsterpile

I rode a couple hundred miles on a wheel that was out of round, but true. It was that way so long I usually forgot about it. I sorta miss having a beater commuter. =P

dsprehe89

I rode a out of round and out of true rim for around 80 miles when I got my road bike off CL. I was just waiting for my new rear wheel to come in also, so I just rode it and it was a 32 spoke 27" steel rim and only became a little less true than it was when I started riding it, and I weighed 250lbs at the time. If you aren't worried about the rim become more untrue and are already getting a new one, just ride it. Just ride it carefully cause if multiple spokes decide to break all at once it could end up ugly.

mikepwagner

Does that sound a little strange to anyone else? Any reason they couldn't loosen spokes that were too taut?

It's been a very long time since I trued a wheel, but in the past I done so for bikes and at least one motorcycle front wheel. In every case, when I tightened one spoke, I loosened another.

If I wanted to move the rim from "right to left" (laterally) then I loosed the spoke on the side I wanted to move the rim away from, and tightened it on the side I wanted to move the rim towards.

If I wanted to move the rim close to the hub (radially), then I tightened one spoke and loosened the one on the opposite side of the wheel.

If you don't loosen a spoke whenever you tighten one - assuming that they all start out taught - the rim will never get trued. Don't ask me how I know that , but in my defense, I will say that I was 12 or 13 at the time.

The "spokes are too taut" sounds bugs to me.

Mike

tjspiel

The only thing I can think of is that the spokes were too long to the proper tension and couldn't be tightened anymore.

bragi

I have two observations, neither one of which I imagine you're going to like:

1. I do virtually all of my own maintenance now. Except truing wheels. I'll get there eventually, but it takes a lot of skill to pull this one off. Unless you're a very handy person, you should leave this one to experts until you get more experience. Which brings me to:

2. You went to Sports Authority to get a wheel job? WTF? Like you said yourself, you should have gone to a real bike shop. My experience with Sports Authority does not (thank God) include bike work, but my overall impression of this retailer is that their personnel are not expert at much of anything. A few months ago, I went there looking for a rain coat. The people in the clothing department told me they didn't have any rain coats. I went ahead and looked on my own, and discovered that they had literally dozens of them in a variety of sizes and styles. When I went to the register to use my gift certificate to pay for the coat, they totally f*cked up the transaction, and I had to come back the next day to pick up my coat, because the people who were there at the time couldn't figure out their own computer network. I wouldn't trust these people to sell me a pair of gloves, let alone true my wheels.

monsterpile

I don't think truing wheels is that hard. Its a bit of trial and error at first, but building a wheel is totally intimating to me. One of these days I'll do it I have a wheel I need to put back together after some guy I bought a project from had taken it apart for some reason.

CB HI

I just started reading this thread and through the first 13 post was thinking exactly the same thing.
The shop that told the OP the spokes were too tight to true are completely clueless.

And part of properly truing a wheel is to put it in round.

Use the new wheel as a spare and get the old wheel trued by someone that actually knows what they are doing.

I learned to true wheels from a book, https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-.../dp/0960723668

Still have the first edition of the book (1981).

A key point to wheel building or truing, is once you have proper spoke tension, do not turn any spoke more than a quarter turn (and no more than 1/8 turn when almost true) and as noted before, loosen a spoke for every one you tighten.

AlphaDogg

FWIW, it is a Performance Bike shop https://www.performancebike.com/

mechBgon

I recall one "old hand" offer this advice: when in doubt, loosen it out

Praxis

Mount the bicycle in a work stand, wheel attached. Rotate pedals while shifting into high gear, building up a high wheel speed. Finally, using the brake bridge area as a tool rest, gently apply the skew chisel to the wheel, with frequent checks for roundness. Remember, you can't cut it larger!

AlphaDogg

The wheel is out of dish, but it isn't so big of a problem if I adjust the wheel in the dropouts after every ride. I was going slowly on my commute today, and I thought for sure my wheel had shifted in the dropouts, causing the brakes to rub. I thought "its only a couple miles more, I can tough it out and adjust at home." So I did. I noticed that a spoke had come completely loose (or loose enough that I could bend it a lot). So I grabbed my spoke wrench and tightened it. The brakes were also rubbing, so I adjusted those. That new wheel can't come soon enough!

Don in Austin

Why don't you just use the 126 mm wheel with a washer on each side of the hub?

Don in Austin

AlphaDogg

I didn't know I could do that. Anyway, I've been riding on the out of round-out of true-out of dish rear wheel for about 65mi and all has been fine (knock on wood). I called sports authority and they told me the wheel should be here by Tuesday.

mikepwagner

You might try truing it yourself.

Doing a really great job of truing, and doing it fast are what you pay the pros for.

But I suspect that almost anyone can do an OK job pretty slowly.

As long as you understand that you aren't trying to "compress" the wheel into shape - you'e trying to move rim in relationship to hub (laterally or radially), I think that you'll be fine.

Understand that you need to loose the some in the direction that you want want the rim to move away from, and tighten it in the direction you want to move the rim towards.

No one will pay me to true a wheel for the Tour de France, but it's actually pretty interesting to me.

I would bet that within a couple of hours, you could get it reasonably true, and might have a little fun doing so.

I guess that depends partly on your definition of fun.

I know the first time I did it, it gave me an appreciation for the invention of bike wheels that are held in shape mostly by tension. It's a pretty cool piece of technology.

Mike