hollowmen

For my first road bike, I had probably 2-3 cm of drop. Since then, I've purchased another bike (and hopefully my last for a while) that is certainly a smaller frame. With a couple of cm worth of spacers still under my stem, I've got about 10.

I've got the option to remove some spacers, and switch to a different stem with a steeper angle to increase the drop, but I'm curious as to whether or not the benefits would be worth it. I can ride comfortably with 10 cm worth of drop (I've actually enjoyed it more than less drop), so I was curious as to whether or not you guys think more drop is worth the bit of adaptation that it might require. Also, how much drop do you guys ride with?

Weekday rides for me are between 25-35 miles, and weekend rides are upwards of 60-70. I don't race, though I plan on starting after this coming season. I'm 170 lbs and trying to lose weight.

So, let's pull out those tape measurers and see who's is bigger!

Dolamite02

You need a fitter to answer these things, no one online will be able to provide the most accurate information because we can't see your measurements, joint flexibility, and a number of other things.

Brian Ratliff

Bar drop is not really a fit thing, it's a comfort/aerodynamics/power thing. Larger the drop (to a point, obviously), the more power you can get out of your body (as you close your hip angle, your glutes contribute more to your power), and the more aerodynamic you are. The tradeoff is in comfort.



This is my race bike; have no idea the bar drop, but it is pretty large. It's taken me 4 years of racing and ~4 years of riding prior to racing to arrive at this position. My first race bike had a stem that was 3-4cm higher and 1cm closer. The first few long training rides of the season, my neck gets tight afterwards. A few weeks later, no issues whatsoever.

ColinL

I agree with both of the above replies.

Drop is dependent on flexibility and arm length. 10cm/3.9" of drop isn't severe. There are some pros with that drop, and many with a lot more. I wouldn't make too much of what the pros do.

It is normal to gain flexibility and comfort with the road bike position and increase your drop over time, to a certain point. Then as you age, usually you start going back the other way.

I would need to measure my drop also as I don't have an exact number. It's probably around 3". Here's a recent shot from the wrong angle. (I didn't take it for this thread. )


Like Brian I also was originally higher. Presently I have the leg and back flexibility to go lower, but my neck isn't going to like it. I run about this same drop on my MTB. (I don't have identical cockpits because they are very different needs... but they are similar.)


Footnote:
my wife is huge into yoga and is tremendously more flexible than I am. she can do the splits, stand with palms flat on the floor, etc. but she has long legs, short torso, short arms. her torso angle is similar to mine but you can see she has little to no drop. (bike on the left.) she can go lower and probably will this year.

pallen

The kinds of rides you do can also be a factor. I can do up to around 100mi on my bike with slammed stem and significant drop with no discomfort. The last 25mi or so of a 200k this weekend had my shoulders hurting though. Next time I do a ride that long, I'm flipping it before the ride.

mpath

And let's not forget as our bodies grow older - that's another variable to consider. Ten plus years ago I owned a Ducati 748 and loved it, with aggressive race position not meant for long hauls. Doubtful now if I could sustain that riding position for so long.

Seattle Forrest

The tradeoff between power and comfort is a fit issue. You can do fit yourself, or with the help/advice of friends or internet people, but a fitter can help you skip a lot of BS.

That said, you're talking about losing some spacers and maybe changing to a steeper angle stem, not changing your frame. Try it. If you don't like the setup, it's very easy to change it back.

Looigi

Yep. I'm pushing 60 and have the tops of my bars 10cm below the top of the saddle. (measure up from the floor and take the diff). I used to ride with the bars higher but find that my back is much happier with lower bars. Same for my slightly younger wife. Of course it takes some conditioning to get used to lower bars.

ColinL

Correct. It's especially affordable if you first try a really cheap stem.

chadteck

I learned most of what I know about the subject of cycling from BF (I know, poor me...) and everything I read seemed to suggest that as far as drop is concerned, MOAR = better!!111!

So, I got a 50cm frame and rode for a while with 6 inches of drop. I'm 5'11". I eventually realized that just because I could ride that much drop, doesn't mean it was the optimal amount. I've determined that I only need about 4 inches to get my torso completely parallel to the ground with arms bent 90 degrees.

I'm not saying don't try more drop, I'm just saying don't get caught up in making your drop epeen measurement bigger. When you can get your torso parallel to the ground with your arms in a comfortable position, you don't need any more drop. That's provided you're flexible enough to ride in that position without feeling like you're loosing too much power.

hollowmen

A solid point. pallen's point about changing the setup slightly depending on the ride is also a good idea. This summer, I'll be doing a lot of long rides day in and day out with less emphasis on speed, so a little less drop might not be a bad idea.

Thanks for the input, guys.

slims_s

I have around 7cm of drop and, in the drops, with perpendicular elbows, i can get an almost-flat back, and can get pretty aero in the hoods too. I don't see how slamming the stem (3cm of spacers below it), could help get a better position, besides making the bike more uncomfortable. I see plenty of guys with an ubber-pro drop that NEVER seem to touch the drops, you see them riding the tops very often.

rat fink

I believe that bar drop should vary based on anatomy (which does not change much), flexibility (which does change), and riding style/form (which can change). How pro looking your setup is, primarily, has to do with how long your arms/torso are in proportion to your legs, and secondarily, with your current flexibility, (particularly in the hamstrings/neck). My road bikes are currently setup with about 17.5cm of saddle to bar drop with a 130mm stem.

abstractform20

if youre comfortable: no problem

Brian Ratliff

1) wind tunnel results show the lower you go, the more aero. There is no local maximum to the curve.

2) it is very uncomfortable to ride with 90 degree bent elbows for long periods of time. I've had windy road races where I've been in the drops for most of a 2 hour race. Most crits have you in the drops the full race.

3) The objective is not to equalize time between all your hand positions. Your bike isn't going to mind if you only spend 10% of your time in your drops. In fact, where I put my hands really depends on how hard I am riding. If it's an lazy 70 miles, especially with a group, then you'll see me on the tops of the bars most of the time. If it's a tempo ride, then mostly on the hoods. If on the rivet, then in the drops. Obviously I spend a lot more time training slow than training fast; you'll see me on the tops more often then in the drops by a large margin, but it doesn't mean I need to raise my bars.

4) A lot times you can get into a more stable position on your bike with a larger drop. This has to do with weight distribution and center of gravity height.

Obviously it can be overdone. The 5'11" guy on a 50cm frame is way overdone (I'm the same height and I ride 56 or 58cm frames). Drop isn't the only variable. Reach is also important and to a certain extent can be traded off. The racing position isn't just a large drop, it's also a long reach.

adriano 

4.x or 5.x centimeters from the saddle. im in the drops all the time.

Dolamite02

Although I don't care enough to get deep into it, I've got to ask: What exactly do you believe a fit covers if not comfort, aerodynamics and power?

carpediemracing 

Drop is very personal. I have a bad back, with several burst and bulging discs (doc's words). I am most comfortable in the drops on a long ride (shorter rides I can handle tops or hoods). I went to new bars not realizing that they'd raise me out of my comfort zone. I went to older bars that gave me drop.

I've had to get a higher position when I gained a lot of weight (2003-2004 was worst - I had a much, much higher position, probably 10 cm higher than now). I could get into a much lower position when I was more fit (2010 for example).

The bike's length is important too. When I finally got a properly fit frame (I have short legs and a long torso, so I needed a 50 cm seat tube with a 56-57 cm top tube - I decided on a 40 cm compact style frame with 56.5 cm top tube), I felt super comfortable on the drops.

Brian Ratliff

Biomechanics of joints. Fit is about producing power without f-ing your knees or hips. When I was fit by one of our local coaches/fit specialists, his focus was exclusively on hip angle, knee tracking, heal position, etc. Had nothing to do with comfort or aerodynamics. I got more power out of it in a bargain, but the emphasis was joint biomechanics and stability.

He raised my saddle by almost an inch and I immediately felt better (solved my foot discomfort and hamstring cramping problems) and produced more power. His only input to my cockpit was a quick glance to make sure 44cm bar width wasn't way off base and I was in a relatively low position (since this is a fit for a race bike). Later that season and into the next season, I evolved my bar position to be lower, longer, and narrower. I used to use a 44cm bar with 110mm, -6 degree stem. I now use a 42cm bar with a 120mm, -17 stem.

Dolamite02

The effect of hip angle, knee tracking etc is comfort, aerodynamics and power though. He may not have used those terms, but they were the end result of your fit. If you're in a powerful position, but it's uncomfortable to maintain for the needed period, your power will drop. Likewise if you're in an extremely aerodynamic position, but one which constricts your motion, your power (and comfort) will drop.

I think we're saying the same thing, but biomechanics is the tool to achieve the optimum balance of power comfort, power and aerodynamics.

Brian Ratliff

ok.

Hiro11

I'm at a little more than 5cm. 5'9", long-ish top tube frame.

When did this obsession with slammed stems and bar drop begin? I returned to riding seriously only two years ago after stopping racing in the early ninites. Back then, this wasn't something people really thought about. No one was worried about how much quill stem was showing about the headset. It seems like a fad. If you want to get more aero, just get in the drops. I see a lot of guys with fashionably slammed stems who never get off the hoods.

canemaster

ColinL

yeah, six inches of drop doesn't sound like enough unless he has seriously short legs and a low saddle height.

Brian Ratliff

Bar, stem, and frame design were all different back then. When you were racing in the 90's, your quill stem was probably -17 degrees like everyone else's. Your bars were probably of the "standard" bend design which put the drops comparatively low. You probably didn't spend all that much time on the hoods. Things change. Compact bars are the norm, with their shallow drops. Positive rise stems are normal. Hood design is accommodating to a regular riding position.

The results are that the modern hood position is a little higher than your old drop position and a little lower than your hoods position. The modern drop position is right about where it used to be, maybe a little lower. Instead of the normal position being in the drops and the aero position being with bent arms, the modern normal position is on the hoods and the aero position in the drops.

This:


Is not all that much different than:


If you look at the actual position of the grip points of the bars.