Carfree infrastructure
#1
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Thread Starter
Carfree infrastructure
There are lots of rural and suburban folks who hang around LCF.
I'm kind of curious as to whether they can continue to pursue active transportation when there's really no infrastructure to support their activity. For example, I know people who ride their bikes 6 or 7 miles to the grocery store. Or commute a god awful number of miles each day. Or who have to make a major bike expedition to even get to a coffee shop.
But how practical is that over the long haul? Don't you thing you'd eventually get a car? Or maybe move somewhere closer to things?
I'm kind of curious as to whether they can continue to pursue active transportation when there's really no infrastructure to support their activity. For example, I know people who ride their bikes 6 or 7 miles to the grocery store. Or commute a god awful number of miles each day. Or who have to make a major bike expedition to even get to a coffee shop.
But how practical is that over the long haul? Don't you thing you'd eventually get a car? Or maybe move somewhere closer to things?
#3
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I'm close (< 5 miles) from almost everything I really need. What bothers me is my friends who like to meet for a little walking exercise that's at a park 10mi from me, or when they want to do a 50mi ride that starts 8mi from my house (giving me a 60+ ride). If I was 25 I'd be fine, but I'm 67 and it's tiring to do that much mileage.
#4
In the right lane
Thread Starter
I'm close (< 5 miles) from almost everything I really need. What bothers me is my friends who like to meet for a little walking exercise that's at a park 10mi from me, or when they want to do a 50mi ride that starts 8mi from my house (giving me a 60+ ride). If I was 25 I'd be fine, but I'm 67 and it's tiring to do that much mileage.
#5
Banned
I'm hooked into a mortgage, credit and liquidity are issues, so moving is off the table. Fortunately, there are several groceries within 2 miles.
But I can safely say: I will do just about anything to avoid having to buy another F'N car. To me, it's like slave chains.
But I can safely say: I will do just about anything to avoid having to buy another F'N car. To me, it's like slave chains.
#6
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The boyfriend has a car that's paid off completely, so if anything is out of range of my outofshape body powering the bike, he can give me a ride. I see no reason to throw away thousands on a car if I dont need to.
#7
I'm in the suburbs, yes. But things aren't that far from me. There are sidewalks, I'm not far from the mall, library, community center, parks, grocery store etc... There's plenty of public transit here. Plus taxis for emergencies. Being in the suburbs doesn't exclude carfree infrastructure.
#8
Banned.
Before I was car - free, my longest commute was 29 miles each way. I did it by bike most of the time, and loved it; and was terrifically fit as a result, of course. But note I say "most of the time". There were occasions when weather conditions were simply too foul. I don't mind riding one hour forty five minutes in the rain, but snow and ice are a different matter. And there were other occasions when it was imperative that I have access to the car during the day for work purposes. So it would have been very tough to go car free under those circumstances.
Now, when I no longer need to commute, it is no problem. I ride, or I take public transport. In the 18 months since I sold the car I have hired one on three occasions for journeys that would have been impracticable otherwise. And I have, on occasion, ridden 20 miles to the start of an organised 104 mile ride, making it a 144-mile round trip for me. A long day, but not insupportable. In fact I quite like the reaction of other (younger) riders when they discover I've got to the start line by bike.
Now, when I no longer need to commute, it is no problem. I ride, or I take public transport. In the 18 months since I sold the car I have hired one on three occasions for journeys that would have been impracticable otherwise. And I have, on occasion, ridden 20 miles to the start of an organised 104 mile ride, making it a 144-mile round trip for me. A long day, but not insupportable. In fact I quite like the reaction of other (younger) riders when they discover I've got to the start line by bike.
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I live in a semi-rural area. Carfree could be done (and is by a couple of people) but jobs are limited in this area to low paying retail/service type jobs. Eventually we will either become a relative self sufficent farm or move into town where things are a lot closer. In the past 5-6 years we have gotten a small pharmacy, a chain grocery store, dentist and GP within a 3 mile radius, if you 8 miles you get a couple more grocery stores and some fast food. It is 19 miles one way into the largest nearby town with full services. About 16 miles to a smaller town with full services. Biggest problem is the roads getting to and from those towns, they are not cyclist friendly.
Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
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RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#10
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There are lots of rural and suburban folks who hang around LCF.
I'm kind of curious as to whether they can continue to pursue active transportation when there's really no infrastructure to support their activity. For example, I know people who ride their bikes 6 or 7 miles to the grocery store. Or commute a god awful number of miles each day. Or who have to make a major bike expedition to even get to a coffee shop.
But how practical is that over the long haul? Don't you thing you'd eventually get a car? Or maybe move somewhere closer to things?
I'm kind of curious as to whether they can continue to pursue active transportation when there's really no infrastructure to support their activity. For example, I know people who ride their bikes 6 or 7 miles to the grocery store. Or commute a god awful number of miles each day. Or who have to make a major bike expedition to even get to a coffee shop.
But how practical is that over the long haul? Don't you thing you'd eventually get a car? Or maybe move somewhere closer to things?
I plan on buying myself a Trek 520 when I get a job and putting a BionX rear wheel into it a few months later. I'll drop the rear wheel and swap on the original (and take out the battery) when I don't want to go eBiking. This may involve reconfiguring the rear brake as well, we'll see.
Your work commute is 10 miles? That sucks. It's a nice ride if it's not hilly, but some days you want that power so you can shave 10-20 minutes off the ride... at which point it's exactly as long as (or faster than) the drive. You work down I-95, 35 miles away? Traffic in rush hour is so much suck that a bike ride through the city takes just as long if you're Lance ... maybe you can eBike it, maybe not. It really depends, but it could happen. A "quick" 5 mile drive downtown involves $15 parking or finding a parking spot 12 blocks away, if you just don't feel like biking it today you can eBike it but I'm sure 5 miles is nothing in the city, I do that all the time.
#11
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See for me I don't mind the rain in 106F weather, but if it's like 70, 40, a few degrees above whatever's Farenjerk for freezing, the rain is my enemy. If it's below freezing and snowy... Schwalbe winter tires and lots of wool!
#12
Sophomoric Member
I'm with you. I find snow is often more comfortable than rain. (and a lot prettier too.) If the temp is less than about 70F, you really need some kind of rain gear to stay warm and dry. And then you sweat--unless perhaps you pay a fortune for breathable rain pants and jacket. In snow you just wear your light winter shell and maybe a couple layers of wool and/or fleece.
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#13
Banned.
I'm with you. I find snow is often more comfortable than rain. (and a lot prettier too.) If the temp is less than about 70F, you really need some kind of rain gear to stay warm and dry. And then you sweat--unless perhaps you pay a fortune for breathable rain pants and jacket. In snow you just wear your light winter shell and maybe a couple layers of wool and/or fleece.
The thing that interests me about this discussion is the notion that 10 miles each way is a long commute by bike. I commuted for many many years. My shortest was 8 miles, which even in London traffic was a 35 minute ride - comfortably faster than I could have done it by car or public transport. Mostly I commuted in the 15-20 mile range. About an hour each way riding, which in big cities is a commonplace travel time to work, and it kept me pretty fit at the same time. I'm a bit surprised to find riders in a carfree forum regarding a 10 mile commute as a serious inconvenience.
#14
In the right lane
Thread Starter
Less than 70f? It's less than 70f maybe 275 days a year, here. But then, it's not often below freezing, either.
The thing that interests me about this discussion is the notion that 10 miles each way is a long commute by bike. I commuted for many many years. My shortest was 8 miles, which even in London traffic was a 35 minute ride - comfortably faster than I could have done it by car or public transport. Mostly I commuted in the 15-20 mile range. About an hour each way riding, which in big cities is a commonplace travel time to work, and it kept me pretty fit at the same time. I'm a bit surprised to find riders in a carfree forum regarding a 10 mile commute as a serious inconvenience.
The thing that interests me about this discussion is the notion that 10 miles each way is a long commute by bike. I commuted for many many years. My shortest was 8 miles, which even in London traffic was a 35 minute ride - comfortably faster than I could have done it by car or public transport. Mostly I commuted in the 15-20 mile range. About an hour each way riding, which in big cities is a commonplace travel time to work, and it kept me pretty fit at the same time. I'm a bit surprised to find riders in a carfree forum regarding a 10 mile commute as a serious inconvenience.
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My thought in starting this discussion was a scenario that I see often here. A > 20 mile roundtrip commute, many miles for groceries, many miles for just about everything. There are commuters here who do that, just as there are car commuters who do 3 to 4 hours a day on the road.
My question is at what point do carfree types say.. hey, maybe I should give all this up and get a lifestyle where I'm not on the bike 3-4 hours every day.
I know bike riding is a good way to keep fit, but at a certain point, long days in the saddle must really detract from the rest of your life.
And certainly, for myself at age 58, I don't think I could handle that type of lifestyle. I try to keep my weekly miles in the 80-120 range and find it keeps me adequately fit and also gives me time to spend on this forum
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#15
Banned.
I know bike riding is a good way to keep fit, but at a certain point, long days in the saddle must really detract from the rest of your life.
And certainly, for myself at age 58, I don't think I could handle that type of lifestyle. I try to keep my weekly miles in the 80-120 range and find it keeps me adequately fit and also gives me time to spend on this forum
![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
The real issue for the rural/suburban car free lifestyle is health. Cyclists age more slowly than the general population, and there are some posters in the 50+ forum who are still racking up prodigious mileages in their eighties. But eventually, accident or infirmity is going to stop us carting 40lbs of groceries ten miles home by bike. At that point it makes sense to move somewhere a little closer to services and amenities.
#16
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Thread Starter
Each to their own. I'm a year younger than you, and I am on the bike for 12-15 hours a week, no longer because I need to but just because I like it. I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm slightly nuts, of course...
The real issue for the rural/suburban car free lifestyle is health. Cyclists age more slowly than the general population, and there are some posters in the 50+ forum who are still racking up prodigious mileages in their eighties. But eventually, accident or infirmity is going to stop us carting 40lbs of groceries ten miles home by bike. At that point it makes sense to move somewhere a little closer to services and amenities.
The real issue for the rural/suburban car free lifestyle is health. Cyclists age more slowly than the general population, and there are some posters in the 50+ forum who are still racking up prodigious mileages in their eighties. But eventually, accident or infirmity is going to stop us carting 40lbs of groceries ten miles home by bike. At that point it makes sense to move somewhere a little closer to services and amenities.
![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Actually, I'm doing about 10-12 hours a week throughout the year. I guess that doesn't speak much to my speed. I seem to average about 10-11 mph. I blame it on the red lights.
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#19
Sophomoric Member
11 mph (as measured on a bike computer) is a damn good average for city riding, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Actually, 11 mph is around the average speed for cars in the city.
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#20
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I'm car light (6,000 miles a year) and live in out in the burbs. But not too far, and can walk to the grocery, bank, drycleaners in a little over a mile. Work and the GF are 4 - 6 miles away, and I ride those routes enough to keep the mileage low like I do. But public transportation doesn't work for me most of the time, I'd rather walk or bicycle than take the bus if I'm not driving.
#21
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I'm car light (6,000 miles a year) and live in out in the burbs. But not too far, and can walk to the grocery, bank, drycleaners in a little over a mile. Work and the GF are 4 - 6 miles away, and I ride those routes enough to keep the mileage low like I do. But public transportation doesn't work for me most of the time, I'd rather walk or bicycle than take the bus if I'm not driving.
If you were planning on moving, would you think about moving where walking and biking would be even more convenient (I'm imagining there might be in Chicagoland, but depends on a lot of factors I guess... cost of housing, proximity to girlfriend, family, etc,,,)??
Reason I ask is that I'm living in a house that has become over-sized. I just don't need that much space. And every time I have to mow the lawn, I keep thinking... this is rather silly...
#22
Full Member
I've mentioned this before, but I'll add here as well. I love riding my bike, moreso than my kids. My wife loves riding as well. We have a pair of Xtracycles with various brackets and seats should someone have a mechanical problem or fatigue set in sooner than normal, we can still get everyone and everything home. When we looked for a home after moving to Ohio, we choose a place close to shopping and not so far from work. We actually do 95% of our grocery shopping on bike. We're getting around to doing other shopping on bike as well. I'd love to bike to work and dont think the 7 miles one way would be any challenge. The only issue is rider safety as one part of the road is very narrow and has many blind spots. During the day, I could manage, but I go to work well before the sun comes up and that is where my commute becomes scary. I'll stick to driving, thanks.
Carfree works for some, but not all. I dont ride for green/mother earth. I dont ride because its easier or faster. I dont ride to get back at the oil companies. I dont ride for my health. I ride because I like to ride. I just try to incorporate my enjoyment for riding into everyday activities.
Carfree works for some, but not all. I dont ride for green/mother earth. I dont ride because its easier or faster. I dont ride to get back at the oil companies. I dont ride for my health. I ride because I like to ride. I just try to incorporate my enjoyment for riding into everyday activities.
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#23
Banned.
Speaking for myself, I'd move somewhere that offered easy access (by bike and public transport, preferably rail) to a City/town centre, but allowed me to get out into the countryside pretty quickly on the bike.
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#25
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But you have a car as a backup. Otherwise, you'd be taking a very inconvenient bus or a bicycle.
If you were planning on moving, would you think about moving where walking and biking would be even more convenient (I'm imagining there might be in Chicagoland, but depends on a lot of factors I guess... cost of housing, proximity to girlfriend, family, etc,,,)??
Reason I ask is that I'm living in a house that has become over-sized. I just don't need that much space. And every time I have to mow the lawn, I keep thinking... this is rather silly...
If you were planning on moving, would you think about moving where walking and biking would be even more convenient (I'm imagining there might be in Chicagoland, but depends on a lot of factors I guess... cost of housing, proximity to girlfriend, family, etc,,,)??
Reason I ask is that I'm living in a house that has become over-sized. I just don't need that much space. And every time I have to mow the lawn, I keep thinking... this is rather silly...
If i was going to move, my first choice would be the Netherlands - but I don't think that's going to happen. My second choice would allow me to live either car free or car light. I wouldn't want to go back to an isolated suburb or Chicago - neither one appeals to me now.