Feels harder to climb and sprint. Wheels or legs?
07-26-12, 10:06 AM
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Feels harder to climb and sprint. Wheels or legs?
Guess I'm seeking some clarification and comfort from the 41 as usual.
I am very happy so far with my new wheelset upgrade: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...8#post14530248 Reynolds 2011 DV3k Carbon Clinchers - theoretically 1530g for the set. I like how well they dampen vibrations and the slight aero upgrade.
Old wheels: Neuvation M28X aero. Rated somewhere over 1700g for the set.
Now, I'm a little paranoid as usual and feel like the new ones are not really lighter.
I figure they'd be super stiff given the not so ligh weight, but my sprinting feels like it's suffered.
My climbing feels slower too.
I'm flying on flats though.
It is very likely that the negatives are all in my mind/legs. I'm reaching a burn-out point in the season, I believe. So I wanted some quantifiable experienced comments from you in terms of how these new wheels should perform climbing or sprinting, compared to my old ones.
Thank you!
I am very happy so far with my new wheelset upgrade: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...8#post14530248 Reynolds 2011 DV3k Carbon Clinchers - theoretically 1530g for the set. I like how well they dampen vibrations and the slight aero upgrade.
Old wheels: Neuvation M28X aero. Rated somewhere over 1700g for the set.
Now, I'm a little paranoid as usual and feel like the new ones are not really lighter.
I figure they'd be super stiff given the not so ligh weight, but my sprinting feels like it's suffered.
My climbing feels slower too.
I'm flying on flats though.
It is very likely that the negatives are all in my mind/legs. I'm reaching a burn-out point in the season, I believe. So I wanted some quantifiable experienced comments from you in terms of how these new wheels should perform climbing or sprinting, compared to my old ones.
Thank you!
07-26-12, 10:21 AM
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I understand the weight difference is practically negligible. If anything, the new wheels would have the advantage. But perhaps there's more science to it considering rim depths and so forth. (?) Hope you're right though!
07-26-12, 10:30 AM
#4
As for the wheels, climbing and sprinting are both situations where you are taking a lot of torque from the rear hub and transferring it to the rim. A radial spoke can not transfer torque, so if your wheel has radial spokes in the back this will not transfer torque as well to the rim. The M28s are only 1X on both sides which will transfer the torque (not as well as 2X on both sides, but much better than radial).
For riding along on the flats (say doing a triathlon or time trial) you could actually use a wheel radial on both sides in the rear and it would be fine once you got up to speed. But for climbing, sprinting, changing pace, and cornering, radial doesn't belong on a rear wheel and that is probably the lag you are feeling.
07-26-12, 10:31 AM
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07-26-12, 10:33 AM
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I don't understand why any rear wheels have radial spoking. Is there a "plus" side other than tiny bit shorter spokes ?
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07-26-12, 10:39 AM
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Legs
07-26-12, 10:39 AM
#9
Mind/legs.
Depending on how much I drink or sweat, I can gain or lose 3 lbs. on a 75 mile ride. That's 1.36 KILOgrams.
I hate to say this to someone who just dropped some cash, but the only thing you gained by this switch was looks, and slightly more vibration dampening (which is perfectly fine; I like new gear too). Anything else is placebo. The aero claim is marketing hype which you aren't going to be able to notice unless you are at a pro level. Your position and profile in the wind is 95% of aero. As far as your legs and climbing rate, everybody has slumps. Just keep pushing.
Depending on how much I drink or sweat, I can gain or lose 3 lbs. on a 75 mile ride. That's 1.36 KILOgrams.
I hate to say this to someone who just dropped some cash, but the only thing you gained by this switch was looks, and slightly more vibration dampening (which is perfectly fine; I like new gear too). Anything else is placebo. The aero claim is marketing hype which you aren't going to be able to notice unless you are at a pro level. Your position and profile in the wind is 95% of aero. As far as your legs and climbing rate, everybody has slumps. Just keep pushing.
07-26-12, 10:42 AM
#10
Just how exactly do you feel your "sprinting" has "suffered"?
And did you really think 170 grams was going to make you climb faster?
Maybe this was in jest and it just went over my head. I hope this is the case.
And did you really think 170 grams was going to make you climb faster?
Maybe this was in jest and it just went over my head. I hope this is the case.
07-26-12, 10:50 AM
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It's a reverse placebo effect.
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07-26-12, 10:55 AM
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i'm currently having this problem too, but it's b/c of the summer heat. I've felt pretty weak for last month. The heat and humidity just sucks all my energy.
07-26-12, 11:08 AM
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The same thing is happening to me, been feeling really weak since the weather started heating up.
Forget about the wheels man, I dropped over 1000 grams switching from the stock wheels on my CAAD9 to Soul 2.0s(1350 grams) and felt almost no difference in climbing. The only difference I feel is faster spin up(not that noticeable) and when I stand up to climb going up 10%+ grades(not that noticeable either). the bike does look cooler so I am happy.
07-26-12, 11:30 AM
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200 grams didn't make me think I'd climb faster, but definitely not slower.
That's why the questioning. Hopefully I just need a rest week, as some have been confirming it's the legs.
07-26-12, 11:32 AM
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Mind/legs.
Depending on how much I drink or sweat, I can gain or lose 3 lbs. on a 75 mile ride. That's 1.36 KILOgrams.
I hate to say this to someone who just dropped some cash, but the only thing you gained by this switch was looks, and slightly more vibration dampening (which is perfectly fine; I like new gear too). Anything else is placebo. The aero claim is marketing hype which you aren't going to be able to notice unless you are at a pro level. Your position and profile in the wind is 95% of aero. As far as your legs and climbing rate, everybody has slumps. Just keep pushing.
Depending on how much I drink or sweat, I can gain or lose 3 lbs. on a 75 mile ride. That's 1.36 KILOgrams.
I hate to say this to someone who just dropped some cash, but the only thing you gained by this switch was looks, and slightly more vibration dampening (which is perfectly fine; I like new gear too). Anything else is placebo. The aero claim is marketing hype which you aren't going to be able to notice unless you are at a pro level. Your position and profile in the wind is 95% of aero. As far as your legs and climbing rate, everybody has slumps. Just keep pushing.
07-26-12, 11:33 AM
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I would like to hear that belch!
As for the wheels, climbing and sprinting are both situations where you are taking a lot of torque from the rear hub and transferring it to the rim. A radial spoke can not transfer torque, so if your wheel has radial spokes in the back this will not transfer torque as well to the rim. The M28s are only 1X on both sides which will transfer the torque (not as well as 2X on both sides, but much better than radial).
For riding along on the flats (say doing a triathlon or time trial) you could actually use a wheel radial on both sides in the rear and it would be fine once you got up to speed. But for climbing, sprinting, changing pace, and cornering, radial doesn't belong on a rear wheel and that is probably the lag you are feeling.
As for the wheels, climbing and sprinting are both situations where you are taking a lot of torque from the rear hub and transferring it to the rim. A radial spoke can not transfer torque, so if your wheel has radial spokes in the back this will not transfer torque as well to the rim. The M28s are only 1X on both sides which will transfer the torque (not as well as 2X on both sides, but much better than radial).
For riding along on the flats (say doing a triathlon or time trial) you could actually use a wheel radial on both sides in the rear and it would be fine once you got up to speed. But for climbing, sprinting, changing pace, and cornering, radial doesn't belong on a rear wheel and that is probably the lag you are feeling.
07-26-12, 12:47 PM
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Assumption: you're using the same tires, tubes, and rimstrip. If not then that would explain a lot.
I'd make sure that the new wheels are okay, meaning spoke tension, hub adjustment, brake pad clearance (esp if you're really throwing the bike around), frame clearance. Also check the freehub body - there may be excessive drag.
The Reynolds should be very fast. The rims are very light and you should be able to accelerate quickly. The top end may not be different though due to the two rims being comparable aero-wise.
For climbing it won't make a difference.
I used to use Reynolds DV46 clinchers and tubulars and they are good, solid wheels. My teammates ride them now and one noticed considerable drag with the freehub body. The other hasn't had any problems.
I'd make sure that the new wheels are okay, meaning spoke tension, hub adjustment, brake pad clearance (esp if you're really throwing the bike around), frame clearance. Also check the freehub body - there may be excessive drag.
The Reynolds should be very fast. The rims are very light and you should be able to accelerate quickly. The top end may not be different though due to the two rims being comparable aero-wise.
For climbing it won't make a difference.
I used to use Reynolds DV46 clinchers and tubulars and they are good, solid wheels. My teammates ride them now and one noticed considerable drag with the freehub body. The other hasn't had any problems.
07-26-12, 12:58 PM
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100% engine. Wheels don't make you fast, your legs do. Maybe professional riders can tell the difference between wheelsets. And even the "significant" difference claimed by expensive wheel manufacturers measure the advantage of high-tech wheels in seconds per 40 miles. If you are in a pro TT race, that might make a difference. But to a regular slob trying to haul himself over a hill, wheels matter not. It's all in the legs.
07-26-12, 01:03 PM
#22
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I don't build them that way but Zipp claims that it allows more room to accommodate a wider hub center to flange on the DS for better balanced geometry. They claim that wheel stiffness is not effected provided the hub body is stiff enough and the NDS is built more traditionally.
07-26-12, 01:08 PM
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I would like to hear that belch!
As for the wheels, climbing and sprinting are both situations where you are taking a lot of torque from the rear hub and transferring it to the rim. A radial spoke can not transfer torque, so if your wheel has radial spokes in the back this will not transfer torque as well to the rim. The M28s are only 1X on both sides which will transfer the torque (not as well as 2X on both sides, but much better than radial).
For riding along on the flats (say doing a triathlon or time trial) you could actually use a wheel radial on both sides in the rear and it would be fine once you got up to speed. But for climbing, sprinting, changing pace, and cornering, radial doesn't belong on a rear wheel and that is probably the lag you are feeling.
As for the wheels, climbing and sprinting are both situations where you are taking a lot of torque from the rear hub and transferring it to the rim. A radial spoke can not transfer torque, so if your wheel has radial spokes in the back this will not transfer torque as well to the rim. The M28s are only 1X on both sides which will transfer the torque (not as well as 2X on both sides, but much better than radial).
For riding along on the flats (say doing a triathlon or time trial) you could actually use a wheel radial on both sides in the rear and it would be fine once you got up to speed. But for climbing, sprinting, changing pace, and cornering, radial doesn't belong on a rear wheel and that is probably the lag you are feeling.
07-26-12, 01:12 PM
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07-26-12, 01:37 PM
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Assumption: you're using the same tires, tubes, and rimstrip. If not then that would explain a lot.
I'd make sure that the new wheels are okay, meaning spoke tension, hub adjustment, brake pad clearance (esp if you're really throwing the bike around), frame clearance. Also check the freehub body - there may be excessive drag.
The Reynolds should be very fast. The rims are very light and you should be able to accelerate quickly. The top end may not be different though due to the two rims being comparable aero-wise.
For climbing it won't make a difference.
I used to use Reynolds DV46 clinchers and tubulars and they are good, solid wheels. My teammates ride them now and one noticed considerable drag with the freehub body. The other hasn't had any problems.
I'd make sure that the new wheels are okay, meaning spoke tension, hub adjustment, brake pad clearance (esp if you're really throwing the bike around), frame clearance. Also check the freehub body - there may be excessive drag.
The Reynolds should be very fast. The rims are very light and you should be able to accelerate quickly. The top end may not be different though due to the two rims being comparable aero-wise.
For climbing it won't make a difference.
I used to use Reynolds DV46 clinchers and tubulars and they are good, solid wheels. My teammates ride them now and one noticed considerable drag with the freehub body. The other hasn't had any problems.
Clearance from brake pads and frame is good.
As for spoke tension and freehub drag, I can only assume and hope they're ok as the wheel is new and I'm not knowledgeable in those areas.
You think the 2 rims are similar aero-wise? I thought the Reynolds had a significant aero advantage.
Thank you again.
