Lawyer lips - who's filed them off?
08-30-12, 08:40 AM
#101
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Your bike will catch fire & explode.
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08-30-12, 11:50 AM
#102
Senior Member
These Lawyer Lips are stupid.
Remember, years ago most Bicycles did NOT have Quick-Release , the Bicycles came with 15 millimeter Axle Nuts. You used a wrench to install and remove your wheels.
Maybe it would be better if the wheels simply had Axle-Nuts. Maybe the Axles could be swopped, or maybe, the LBS could remove the skewers and install good-old-fashioned Axle Nuts?
The real question here is, does the customer want solid axles, or hollow axles? The hollow axles are strong enough, whether they have Nuts or Skewers.
Let the Local Bike Shop swop the Skewers for Nuts, let the Customer have the Skewers in a zip-lock baggie, and the customer goes out the door of the LBS with his wheels firmly attached.
We have been looking at this problem the wrong way. The QR skewers are a solution to a problem, but somehow they became a problem themselves. Go back to Axle Nuts, and IF the Customer has a problem, he will then realize why QR skewers were invented.
Remember, years ago most Bicycles did NOT have Quick-Release , the Bicycles came with 15 millimeter Axle Nuts. You used a wrench to install and remove your wheels.
Maybe it would be better if the wheels simply had Axle-Nuts. Maybe the Axles could be swopped, or maybe, the LBS could remove the skewers and install good-old-fashioned Axle Nuts?
The real question here is, does the customer want solid axles, or hollow axles? The hollow axles are strong enough, whether they have Nuts or Skewers.
Let the Local Bike Shop swop the Skewers for Nuts, let the Customer have the Skewers in a zip-lock baggie, and the customer goes out the door of the LBS with his wheels firmly attached.
We have been looking at this problem the wrong way. The QR skewers are a solution to a problem, but somehow they became a problem themselves. Go back to Axle Nuts, and IF the Customer has a problem, he will then realize why QR skewers were invented.
08-30-12, 12:06 PM
#103
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disc brakes.. no I don't mind unscrewing the QR nut , I'm not in a race.
have allen bolt skewers on it, since its my commuter..
my rim braked bikes are older than the CSPC requirement.
have allen bolt skewers on it, since its my commuter..
my rim braked bikes are older than the CSPC requirement.
08-31-12, 07:02 PM
#105
Senior Member
file them off on a disc brake fork and it could kill you when the wheel comes out.
there are alternate skewers that allow for the front wheel to come out easier ,
but unscrewing the nut a few more times after releasing the eccentric lever
is not going to be an issue .
unless you are Racing. on the road , with Rim Brakes .. and need the team support crew
to give you a new wheel fast. to keep in sight of the moving peloton..
there are alternate skewers that allow for the front wheel to come out easier ,
but unscrewing the nut a few more times after releasing the eccentric lever
is not going to be an issue .
unless you are Racing. on the road , with Rim Brakes .. and need the team support crew
to give you a new wheel fast. to keep in sight of the moving peloton..
08-31-12, 11:46 PM
#106
It would require the calipers to be redesigned. They're made to mount in a certain place, relative to the wheel. Easier, to just angle the dropout slot. Move the opening to the front of the dropout, with the axle slot 45 to 60 degrees off vertical should cause the braking forces to push the wheel into the dropout, instead of out of it.
09-01-12, 05:08 AM
#107
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It would require the calipers to be redesigned. They're made to mount in a certain place, relative to the wheel. Easier, to just angle the dropout slot. Move the opening to the front of the dropout, with the axle slot 45 to 60 degrees off vertical should cause the braking forces to push the wheel into the dropout, instead of out of it.
09-03-12, 11:11 AM
#108
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I have to put my skewer on absurdly tight to keep my wheel from pulling out against the lawyer lips.
Think about the forces:
- the force from stopping is applied to the bottom of the tire, pointing rearward.
- the force from the brake tries to keep the wheel from rotating, applied to the disc with applied force pointing rearward (well, opposite to the disc motion at the pads).
- the axle wants to go shooting out of the dropout as a result.
The only thing holding your wheel in is friction of the skewer nuts and, when (not if) that is exceeded, the lawyer lips.
Might work okay for a 155-lb rider and a 25-lb bike. But I'm 190 lbs, the bike is 35 lbs, and I carry a basket of groceries. I have to stop too.
Too many things in cycling are on the ragged edge of sanity.
Last edited by beezaur; 09-03-12 at 11:27 AM.
09-03-12, 11:19 AM
#109
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09-03-12, 11:24 AM
#110
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It's an immature technology. You can bet the issue will be resolved in the future.
I have to put my skewer on absurdly tight to keep my wheel from pulling out against the lawyer lips.
Think about the forces:
- the force from stopping is applied to the bottom of the tire, pointing rearward.
- the force from the brake tries to keep the wheel from rotating, applied to the disc with applied force pointing rearward.
- the axle wants to go shooting out of the dropout as a result.
The only thing holding your wheel in is friction of the skewer nuts and, when that is exceeded, the lawyer lips.
Might work okay for a 155-lb rider and a 25-lb bike. But I'm 190 lbs, the bike is 35 lbs, and I carry a basket of groceries. I have to stop too.
Too many things in cycling are on the ragged edge of sanity.
I have to put my skewer on absurdly tight to keep my wheel from pulling out against the lawyer lips.
Think about the forces:
- the force from stopping is applied to the bottom of the tire, pointing rearward.
- the force from the brake tries to keep the wheel from rotating, applied to the disc with applied force pointing rearward.
- the axle wants to go shooting out of the dropout as a result.
The only thing holding your wheel in is friction of the skewer nuts and, when that is exceeded, the lawyer lips.
Might work okay for a 155-lb rider and a 25-lb bike. But I'm 190 lbs, the bike is 35 lbs, and I carry a basket of groceries. I have to stop too.
Too many things in cycling are on the ragged edge of sanity.
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
09-03-12, 01:39 PM
#111
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Many things in life are not "one size fits all".
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 09-03-12 at 04:44 PM.
11-26-12, 07:41 PM
#112
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"Lawyer lips" - who has filed theirs off?
My better half is normally a mild mannered easy going sort of guy. If you want to get him started on a rant, just mention those protrusions they put on modern fork ends to prevent you from using your quick releases properly - lawyer tabs, or lawyer lips, whatever you want to call them. Apparently someone who didn't know how to use a quick release properly had his wheel fall off in a ride, sued the bike manufacturer, and now we all have to put up with them.
He's filed them off on all of our bikes. Yes, maybe it violates some sort of warrantee, but we don't have to spin the skewers around as if they were the old fashioned wing nuts that were put on wheel axles back in the 40s.
Anyone else done this?
He's filed them off on all of our bikes. Yes, maybe it violates some sort of warrantee, but we don't have to spin the skewers around as if they were the old fashioned wing nuts that were put on wheel axles back in the 40s.
Anyone else done this?
11-26-12, 08:04 PM
#113
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Anyone? yes.
Me? No. Takes two seconds to spin the skewer to remove/replace the wheel. OTOH I'm sure someone makes an 8 oz skewer that has enough travel to clear the lips.
It is a case of excessive idiot-proofing, but our lives are filled with more egregious examples.
Me? No. Takes two seconds to spin the skewer to remove/replace the wheel. OTOH I'm sure someone makes an 8 oz skewer that has enough travel to clear the lips.
It is a case of excessive idiot-proofing, but our lives are filled with more egregious examples.
11-26-12, 08:17 PM
#114
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Proper use of a quick release skewer is neither obvious nor intuitive to many folks.
This is far from the first BF thread griping about lawyer lips.
This is far from the first BF thread griping about lawyer lips.
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11-26-12, 08:22 PM
#115
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I filed down some on my old MTB, back when I had a car and had to take the front wheel off for transport, getting rid of them was well worth it. It sometimes takes me more than 8 seconds to get the QR adjusted just right when putting it back on after backing it off enough to clear lips.
Nowadays I only have to remove front wheels a couple times a year so no biggie but I still find it annoying.
11-26-12, 09:46 PM
#116
Senior Member
As a lawyer I deeply object to anyone filing down my lips!
11-26-12, 10:06 PM
#117
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You don't always have to put up with them if you buy framesets or loose forks. Neither my Tommasini or the Goodrich fork on my Bianchi came with lawyer tabs.
11-26-12, 10:28 PM
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11-26-12, 10:32 PM
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11-27-12, 08:03 AM
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