Falkon 

Is there any reason why double eyelet rims are not often found? Has rim construction gotten considerably better in recent decades?
Also, I need to lace new wheels for my vintage Ciocc, but I want to keep the still smooth 36 hole campy super record hubs. Finding Mavic MA40 rims to replace the ones I have has proven to be more expensive than just building with a different rim. Can anyone recommend a good 36 hole rim? This is what I'm leaning toward right now https://hawleyusa.com/thcstore/catalo...px?id=RIMM5374 The only downside to these is they're even heavier than my vintage Mavics.

Andrew R Stewart 

I haven't had to check lately but what about mavis Open Sports (the evolution of the old MA-2)? Andy.

dabac

B/c there's little-to-no advantage to using stuff that's better-than-required. If the overwhelming majority of riders get sufficient service out of single/no eyelet rims, then that seriously limits the market for double eyelet rims.

I think the word is "different" rather than outright better. You can get more aero rims these days, but better would depend on what characteristics you prioritize.

Falkon 

Good info. I was wondering if there were some difference in materials or construction of more modern rims to make them stronger.
It looks like the Mavic Open Pro SUP rim is what I'm looking for. It's double eyelet and available in 36 hole. I did look at the open sport as well, which is very similar to the MA40/MA2.

Thanks for the help!

nhluhr

Well, the Open Pro is double-eyelet, but it's very common to find them with cracks around the eyelets, indicating the implementation in this rim is no good. If you're just looking for a strong as hell rim to last forever, there are plenty of choices out there.

davidad

https://www.thebikebiz.com/store/p/24...Sport-Rim.html#

dabac

First it's down to if you actually mean stronger, or more durable.

An overall increase of rim strength - no, or marginal.
Are there some rims today that are stronger than some rims from years ago - sure.

Years ago there was an outburst of rims cracking where there's a reasonable consensus for this being caused by excessive surface treatment, which doesn't seem to have any current equivalent.

If anything, the trend seems to be for equipment aimed towards shorter, but more high intensity/high performance rides.

This, for road use, promotes the development of rims/wheels with better aerodynamics and fewer spokes.
Or possibly silly light wheels for serious climbs.
Not the thing you'd want on a loaded tour coast-to-coast, but just the ticket to burn off some frustrations during a weekend group ride.
Then there are all the Carbon fiber rims. There, the introduction of CF has been used mainly to create rims that are more aero rather than stronger.
Whichever way you cut it, braking on CF rims is an issue. Manageable, but not ideal. And not really something the industry is that interested in sorting out.

Then there's the birth of the 29er MTB segment. In theory, this'd make a good source for really rugged rims for road use if you can use disc brakes, and don't insist on skinny tires.
But MTB wheels are expected to fail through crashes or impacts rather than by high mileage, so low weight is usually given priority over outright durability.
I'm not saying they will fail soon, just that high-mileage performance isn't a driving factor of their design. You can see some amazingly low spoke tension recommendations for instance. Otherwise prestige brands and makes insists that eyelets aren't needed.
Not needing a brake track has freed up one design constraint though. Usually used to cut weight rather than improving anything else.

Could someone build a rim today that'd be a lot stronger than rims a decade ago - quite probably. If one were to take a mid-profile rim (not to get crasy sensitive to side winds) and drill it for 32/36H instead of - say 24 - odds are it'd be both seriously strong and very durable. But not particularly light though.

Or one could go all-out on a CF design, using dissimilar numbers of layers between spokes and around the nipples. Particularly if built for tubulars, this would have the potential for a seriously light rim w/o sacrificing strength.

ksisler

+10 Dabac; That is a really good discussion that exposes some threads of truth that I had not previous scratched the scab off of. Appreciated.

From my very narrow lense into the issue, which is basically restricted to loaded tandem touring, I have sensed that today I can buy or build a wheel for this specialized purpose, easier today than say 25 years ago. Adding that today there are a wider selection of parts across the range of prices. Of course there are somethings available today that weren't back then (whether that is good or bad, the debate goes on). such as disk brakes, 160mm OLN rear hubs, 10 speed cogsets, IGH's, and somewhat related independent pedaling, quad chainrings, BB's with external bearings and huge spindles, etc.) and some things that were there then that aren't now (like the beloved MaxiCar hubs). Generally when building a tandem wheel today, the price can seem to be high, but when deflated back to 1975 dollars then prices are actually about the same or a bit less.

Pedal on!
//Kerry

pierce

I'm not sure I've seen many 700c rims as bomb proof as the old Mavic Gentlemen's from the early 80s. those rims were perfectly straight and true out of the box, made setting up a wheel nearly trivial (I used to just count turns on the nipples when I started my build to get 'close', and damn if the ones I built with the Gentlemen weren't nearly perfect true without any tweaking). only rims that were stronger were the mavic tubulars from that same era (pre-Wolber).

Falkon 

These are also a good replacement: https://hplusson.com/products/TB14

mrrabbit 

TB14s are hyribd/touring category rims...wide, not narrow.

In other words, not replacements for MA-40s.

=8-)

coupster

I've been riding Mavic rims for quite awhile now. When the freehub on my Mavic Classics finally decided it had had enough, I went researching its replacement. I first found the chatter on cracked spoke holes on Mavic OpenPro's and then I found that DT Swiss made a comparable rim, RR465. 32 hole, double eyelet, welded and machined braking surface and comparable weight wise to a Mavic OpenPro. To close the deal Competitive Cyclist has them on special.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/pr...29.1993.0.html

Combined with NOS Ultegra hubs and Wheelsmith double butted spokes, these were the easiest pair of wheels that I've ever built. Time will tell if they last as long as the Mavics of old.

OOPS. Just reread the original post and saw that you were looking for 36 hole. I still recommend the rim I guess just not just not from Competitive Cyclist for you. Sorry for the misinformation

vredstein

I'd recommend Ambrosio Excellence rims. I've been riding a pair of 32-hole Excellence rims for the last ten years with no problems.
https://www.totalcycling.com/a-z/rims...XCELLENCE.html

zukahn1 

Well one option from my experianece are Mavic CXP 10 rims look almost vintage and are 36 I have set on my personal rider exceptionally light true and tough. Yet most of the cheaper good options rim wise I have found in 700c are 32 spoke. Just how attached are you to those hubes you could likely find a 32 wheelset for about the price of a decent 36 rim?

bradtx

I like the CXP10 and 12 rims also, shame they've been out of production for quite awhile and hard to find.

I researched the TB14 rims for my tourer and read where they've been used with 23 mm tires, but I don't understand the advantages, if any. As my 28H Open Pro CDs have been flawless for ~14 years I think Mavic may've had a bad batch, but it only takes a few...

Velo Orange has some rims that would look nice on an older bike (few decals), but I don't know anything about their quality.

Brad

ksisler

Falkon; Agreed that those look classically spot on back to the those of the day. The "Todestrieb" model also would meet many needs at the 32mm size even though its appearance is not as classic-like.

Do you know what these price out at?