Worried about standover height on an already purchased bike
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Thanks so much for all the feedback guys! I took a ride down to the shop again today and was able to try out the 2012 Vita Sport in a small, which is what they had in stock. The standover height was much better, and it felt a lot safer when dismounting.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
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The OP came in with a bike she loved to ride (had no apparent problems with fit while riding), and everyone told her she had the wrong size frame based on the standover. It's a non-sequitur.
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You're going out on a bunch of limbs there. Very generally, a good fit involves having the proper leg extension, a saddle fore-aft position that's agreeable to the knees, and then the desired handlebar height and extension. None of those dictate, or are informed by, the amount of space between a person's junk and the top tube when they stand over a bike in the store.
So what's the myth, the cynical point of view, or the thing that I'm not understanding since you're making the accusation? There are a lot of things in the bicycling mainstream that exist because of momentum, not because they have merit.
So what's the myth, the cynical point of view, or the thing that I'm not understanding since you're making the accusation? There are a lot of things in the bicycling mainstream that exist because of momentum, not because they have merit.
Standover is a STARTING point; nothing more. It's a RARE rider that gets well fit to a bike when he/she can't straddle the bike AT ALL, or when he/she has enough room for some delicate attention from an S.O.
I have my doubts that you could better fit a rider to a bike than I can, so (cue the DX Chop).
The MYTH is what you're pushing, that standover is useless; if YOU find it useless, all well and good. It HAS helped multitudes, and WILL help multitudes more. (And, in truth, most of the 'momentum' stuff came from Eddie B., so take it up with him -- let me know how that works out for you.)
I'm not interested in a flame war; you believe what you want, I believe what my experience has taught me is right for a LOT of people.
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Hi,
Anyone who is normally proportioned and buys a new bike
with no standover because it allegedly fits is being misled.
rgds, sreten.
Anyone who is normally proportioned and buys a new bike
with no standover because it allegedly fits is being misled.
rgds, sreten.
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Thanks so much for all the feedback guys! I took a ride down to the shop again today and was able to try out the 2012 Vita Sport in a small, which is what they had in stock. The standover height was much better, and it felt a lot safer when dismounting.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
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Wow...you spoiling for a FIGHT, or what? Accusations? REALLY? Your first paragraph HERE, I mostly agree with; what we DISAGREE on is the significance of standover -- you think it's worthless, I think it has SOME worth, and just because I disagree with you, you wanna act like I'm an advocate for "STANDOVER IS ALL."
Standover is a STARTING point; nothing more. It's a RARE rider that gets well fit to a bike when he/she can't straddle the bike AT ALL, or when he/she has enough room for some delicate attention from an S.O.
I have my doubts that you could better fit a rider to a bike than I can, so (cue the DX Chop).
The MYTH is what you're pushing, that standover is useless; if YOU find it useless, all well and good. It HAS helped multitudes, and WILL help multitudes more. (And, in truth, most of the 'momentum' stuff came from Eddie B., so take it up with him -- let me know how that works out for you.)
I'm not interested in a flame war; you believe what you want, I believe what my experience has taught me is right for a LOT of people.
Standover is a STARTING point; nothing more. It's a RARE rider that gets well fit to a bike when he/she can't straddle the bike AT ALL, or when he/she has enough room for some delicate attention from an S.O.
I have my doubts that you could better fit a rider to a bike than I can, so (cue the DX Chop).
The MYTH is what you're pushing, that standover is useless; if YOU find it useless, all well and good. It HAS helped multitudes, and WILL help multitudes more. (And, in truth, most of the 'momentum' stuff came from Eddie B., so take it up with him -- let me know how that works out for you.)
I'm not interested in a flame war; you believe what you want, I believe what my experience has taught me is right for a LOT of people.
Just to clarify, I have nothing against using X" of standover as a starting point when trying out bikes in the store and then setting them up to fit, I just don't think that measurement has any worth once you're out riding a bike that is set up well for you. (Unless you're MTBing and regularly falling off your saddle.)
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Easy, tiger -- if I'd accused you of believing in myths, spreading cynicism, or not understanding anything, you might have taken offense as well.
Just to clarify, I have nothing against using X" of standover as a starting point when trying out bikes in the store and then setting them up to fit, I just don't think that measurement has any worth once you're out riding a bike that is set up well for you. (Unless you're MTBing and regularly falling off your saddle.)
Just to clarify, I have nothing against using X" of standover as a starting point when trying out bikes in the store and then setting them up to fit, I just don't think that measurement has any worth once you're out riding a bike that is set up well for you. (Unless you're MTBing and regularly falling off your saddle.)
For example, about spreading myths -- that would just spur me, with a smile, into an enjoyable "Yo Momma" type of exchange of barbed comments...FUN! Cynicism? One of my favorite jokes from 30 years ago:
An OPTIMIST is a father who will let his teenager borrow the car;
A PESSIMIST is a father who won't;
A CYNIC is a father who DID.
Lack of understanding? I have more levels of understanding than Dante's Inferno has levels. It's the result of a 'deviant' mind....
And, just for the record, about your clarification: if that's what you MEANT, then that's what you should have SAID. Kinda the cornerstone of communication, y'know.....
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Glad they were willing to work it out, like any reputable shop should.
I was in the same exact position when I bought my bike. I have a really short inseam for someone of my height so I was overwhelmingly worried about stand over clearance. The sales person I talked with suggested a 49cm over a 46cm for me. So I bit and bought the 49cm, but for whatever reason the lack of stand over clearance was gnawing me inside out. I went to swap it for a 46cm and after a week realized I felt 'scrunched up' on the bike; my knees were almost touching the handlebar and foot was grinding the wheel on turns. I apologized to the shop and they were willing to swap it back again.
I will gladly take a bike that rides comfortably over stand over clearance after the whole experience.
I was in the same exact position when I bought my bike. I have a really short inseam for someone of my height so I was overwhelmingly worried about stand over clearance. The sales person I talked with suggested a 49cm over a 46cm for me. So I bit and bought the 49cm, but for whatever reason the lack of stand over clearance was gnawing me inside out. I went to swap it for a 46cm and after a week realized I felt 'scrunched up' on the bike; my knees were almost touching the handlebar and foot was grinding the wheel on turns. I apologized to the shop and they were willing to swap it back again.
I will gladly take a bike that rides comfortably over stand over clearance after the whole experience.
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The story of standover height, for anyone who cares...
For most of the history of cycling it was ignored. If you look at pictures of racers prior to about 1960 you'll see that they rode much bigger bikes than we do now, often with just a few cm. of seatpost showing. This was because they used much higher handlebar positions than we do now. A side effect of that was to reduce standover to less than zero. That didn't matter because nobody in their right mind would ever have hopped off a bike and planted both feet flat on the ground while straddling the top tube.
Enter the American bike boom, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I don't know if we had a lot of newly-minted American cycling enthusiasts who weren't in their right minds, or if the CPSC just worried that we might, but it was decided that crotch clearance was necessary, so it was enshrined in the law.
Bike shops responded by having folks stand over the top tube with both feet on the floor and lifting up the handlebars. What started as an attempt to comply with the law ended up a de facto fitting system: "Yup, about an inch of clearance. The bike fits!" The first bike boom fizzled, of course, and with it, most of the things Americans learned about bicycles. Then came the resurgence in popularity started by LeMond and redoubled by Armstrong, and now we have a huge body of cyclists who know damn near nothing about bicycling. Hence "If you ride a bike without crotch clearance you'll die!!!"
Short version: Crotch clearance means nothing when it comes to bike fit. If you prefer a long and/or upright position on a traditionally-styled frame, you may well find that your frame size pushes the top tube well up into your goodies when you straddle it with both feet flat on the ground. At the other end of the scale, a racer on a compact frame, using the smallest size he can get away with, may be perfectly fitted yet have a foot of crotch clearance.
Even shorter version: if you find it necessary to straddle your bike with both feet flat on the ground, you'll want some crotch clearance. If you scratch your head and wonder why anyone would ever feel the need to stand over a bicycle with both feet flat on the ground, you can ignore crotch clearance completely.
For most of the history of cycling it was ignored. If you look at pictures of racers prior to about 1960 you'll see that they rode much bigger bikes than we do now, often with just a few cm. of seatpost showing. This was because they used much higher handlebar positions than we do now. A side effect of that was to reduce standover to less than zero. That didn't matter because nobody in their right mind would ever have hopped off a bike and planted both feet flat on the ground while straddling the top tube.
Enter the American bike boom, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I don't know if we had a lot of newly-minted American cycling enthusiasts who weren't in their right minds, or if the CPSC just worried that we might, but it was decided that crotch clearance was necessary, so it was enshrined in the law.
Bike shops responded by having folks stand over the top tube with both feet on the floor and lifting up the handlebars. What started as an attempt to comply with the law ended up a de facto fitting system: "Yup, about an inch of clearance. The bike fits!" The first bike boom fizzled, of course, and with it, most of the things Americans learned about bicycles. Then came the resurgence in popularity started by LeMond and redoubled by Armstrong, and now we have a huge body of cyclists who know damn near nothing about bicycling. Hence "If you ride a bike without crotch clearance you'll die!!!"
Short version: Crotch clearance means nothing when it comes to bike fit. If you prefer a long and/or upright position on a traditionally-styled frame, you may well find that your frame size pushes the top tube well up into your goodies when you straddle it with both feet flat on the ground. At the other end of the scale, a racer on a compact frame, using the smallest size he can get away with, may be perfectly fitted yet have a foot of crotch clearance.
Even shorter version: if you find it necessary to straddle your bike with both feet flat on the ground, you'll want some crotch clearance. If you scratch your head and wonder why anyone would ever feel the need to stand over a bicycle with both feet flat on the ground, you can ignore crotch clearance completely.
#37
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Thanks so much for all the feedback guys! I took a ride down to the shop again today and was able to try out the 2012 Vita Sport in a small, which is what they had in stock. The standover height was much better, and it felt a lot safer when dismounting.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
When I first sat on it, the frame did seem different and I couldn't be sure if it was too small or "scrunched". When he raised the seat height a bit and I took it for a spin, though, I ultimately went with the small frame.
He was really gracious about the exchange and ordered the 2013 in the color I liked for me. I'm glad I didn't just suck it up and stay with a bike I wasn't 100% sure about. I am 5'1'' afterall, so a 17'' medium sized frame just doesn't seem right for me.
I am about your size and I have found that it's very hard for me to find a bike that is *too* small, but most will be too large! I see many riders my size on frames that are too large.
You will probably always want to look at a Small (or Extra Small) size frame. Make sure you look at the actual measurement numbers of the frame, not just the size that the bike maker says it is.
I have bikes that are size labeled 41cm, 42cm, 44cm, 50cm, 13" and 13.5", but they all pretty much the same dimensions size-wise.
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Last edited by eofelis; 07-05-13 at 03:34 PM.
#38
The Rock Cycle
Good. I'm sure you will be much happier. As others said, it's not so much the standover height as just good overall fit and comfort that matters. The small size will feel better. There's nothing worse in my opinion than trying to push a bike that's too big around on rides whether it's cornering and handling, climbing, or just riding along the flats.
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Gunnar Sport
Specialized Ruby
Salsa Vaya Ti
Novara Randonee x2
Motobecane Fantom CXX
Jamis Dakar XCR
Gunnar Sport
Specialized Ruby
Salsa Vaya Ti
Novara Randonee x2
Motobecane Fantom CXX
Jamis Dakar XCR
#39
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Allot of the small frames I have seen have sacrificed some of the standard bicycle geometry to accommodate the shortened tubes - Your medium frame should be just fine...
BUT - Please post a pic so wee can see your Vita Sport seat and handlebar position**********
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The story of standover height, for anyone who cares...
For most of the history of cycling it was ignored. If you look at pictures of racers prior to about 1960 you'll see that they rode much bigger bikes than we do now, often with just a few cm. of seatpost showing. This was because they used much higher handlebar positions than we do now. A side effect of that was to reduce standover to less than zero. That didn't matter because nobody in their right mind would ever have hopped off a bike and planted both feet flat on the ground while straddling the top tube.
Enter the American bike boom, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I don't know if we had a lot of newly-minted American cycling enthusiasts who weren't in their right minds, or if the CPSC just worried that we might, but it was decided that crotch clearance was necessary, so it was enshrined in the law.
Bike shops responded by having folks stand over the top tube with both feet on the floor and lifting up the handlebars. What started as an attempt to comply with the law ended up a de facto fitting system: "Yup, about an inch of clearance. The bike fits!" The first bike boom fizzled, of course, and with it, most of the things Americans learned about bicycles. Then came the resurgence in popularity started by LeMond and redoubled by Armstrong, and now we have a huge body of cyclists who know damn near nothing about bicycling. Hence "If you ride a bike without crotch clearance you'll die!!!"
Short version: Crotch clearance means nothing when it comes to bike fit. If you prefer a long and/or upright position on a traditionally-styled frame, you may well find that your frame size pushes the top tube well up into your goodies when you straddle it with both feet flat on the ground. At the other end of the scale, a racer on a compact frame, using the smallest size he can get away with, may be perfectly fitted yet have a foot of crotch clearance.
Even shorter version: if you find it necessary to straddle your bike with both feet flat on the ground, you'll want some crotch clearance. If you scratch your head and wonder why anyone would ever feel the need to stand over a bicycle with both feet flat on the ground, you can ignore crotch clearance completely.
For most of the history of cycling it was ignored. If you look at pictures of racers prior to about 1960 you'll see that they rode much bigger bikes than we do now, often with just a few cm. of seatpost showing. This was because they used much higher handlebar positions than we do now. A side effect of that was to reduce standover to less than zero. That didn't matter because nobody in their right mind would ever have hopped off a bike and planted both feet flat on the ground while straddling the top tube.
Enter the American bike boom, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I don't know if we had a lot of newly-minted American cycling enthusiasts who weren't in their right minds, or if the CPSC just worried that we might, but it was decided that crotch clearance was necessary, so it was enshrined in the law.
Bike shops responded by having folks stand over the top tube with both feet on the floor and lifting up the handlebars. What started as an attempt to comply with the law ended up a de facto fitting system: "Yup, about an inch of clearance. The bike fits!" The first bike boom fizzled, of course, and with it, most of the things Americans learned about bicycles. Then came the resurgence in popularity started by LeMond and redoubled by Armstrong, and now we have a huge body of cyclists who know damn near nothing about bicycling. Hence "If you ride a bike without crotch clearance you'll die!!!"
Short version: Crotch clearance means nothing when it comes to bike fit. If you prefer a long and/or upright position on a traditionally-styled frame, you may well find that your frame size pushes the top tube well up into your goodies when you straddle it with both feet flat on the ground. At the other end of the scale, a racer on a compact frame, using the smallest size he can get away with, may be perfectly fitted yet have a foot of crotch clearance.
Even shorter version: if you find it necessary to straddle your bike with both feet flat on the ground, you'll want some crotch clearance. If you scratch your head and wonder why anyone would ever feel the need to stand over a bicycle with both feet flat on the ground, you can ignore crotch clearance completely.
Your post is mostly utter nonsense. Once the safety cycle was invented
and bike fit wasn't two things were required of a typical bike, standover
clearance and one foot on the ground from the saddle for most people.
Next to no seatpost was because saddles were set well below optimum.
(Which meant kids could easily ride adult sized bicycles ...)
Racers of course didn't care about standover, why should they ?
Meanwhile in most of the real world for a quality bike for a typical
person, for a long time the right standover meant the right fit *.
The longer legged short torso going for more standover,
the short legged long torso going for less or none at all.
(Or a bespoke non-standard frame.)
Nowadays nobody needs to buy a bike with no standover for
it to fit properly and you can't just use standover to judge fit.
Still peoples proportions haven't changed and for many ranges
of (good) bikes a standover of ~ 1" for a road bike, ~ 2" for a
hybrid and ~ 3" for a MTB should equate to a bike that fits you.
rgds, sreten.
* Of course only for bike designs where standover is an issue.
Last edited by sreten; 07-06-13 at 07:59 PM.
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What I'm calling BS on, is the notion that X" of standover is the most-important measure you need to find the bike that fits best. And I stand by it -- that measure tells you absolutely nothing about how the bike will fit when riding, which is what actually matters. When else do you straddle the top tube flat-footed, except when you're waiting around during a break on the ride? Having two inches (or whatever) of standover clearance might not even be enough if your legs are bent when you come off the saddle during a panic stop. It's just a liability dodge that has become a no-thought rule for bike fitting.
Anyways, I'm glad that the smaller frame felt better for the OP.
Anyways, I'm glad that the smaller frame felt better for the OP.
However if it's a worry bead for the customer, the bike shop should respect it while not neglecting the other factors in cycle fitting. It's not an easy out.
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It's also a matter of rider tolerance. With over 40 years experience on bicycles, I have tolerance for a standover height that gives me just a cm or so of clearance when standing in my cycling shoes. I also have a very well-trained habit of not landing flat-footed on the ground after a panic stop. I'm really only worried about contact bone to top tube. Some others could not abide a bike with this sizing. But I agree, the SOH means essentially nothing in determining if a bike will be a good for the rider, or will allow the rider's contact point requirements to be satisfied.
However if it's a worry bead for the customer, the bike shop should respect it while not neglecting the other factors in cycle fitting. It's not an easy out.
However if it's a worry bead for the customer, the bike shop should respect it while not neglecting the other factors in cycle fitting. It's not an easy out.
That just implies compared to average your on the somewhat shorter legged
longer torso side and prefer to compromise stand over for the sort of fit you
like with frames built in sizes for the "average" person.
Cynical manipulation of standover without proper sizing did and still does occur,
especially for extreme bike sizes, tall bikes are too short, short bikes too long.
I would assume you prefer bikes sized on your height, not inseam/standover.
rgds, sreten.
Standover can be meaningless, but most of the time now its very meaningful.