pedalnmetal

I guess this could have gone in the cyclocross forum, but 1) I’ll argue that it’s approaching C&V, and 2) I spend most of my time here in C&V and thought folks might appreciate the provenance as it relates to early U.S. cyclocross racing. At any rate, mostly just sharing ...

I recently became the proud parent of twin Hot Tubes cross bikes, picked up via local CL from a team member for the early Hot Tubes cycling team who hadn't ridden them in years. Here’s what I know:

The frames are Columbus EL OS with Columbus SL forks and Columbus dropouts; lugged bottom brackets with cutouts; handmade by Toby Stanton circa 1994 in central MA (he was nice enough to answer an email from me to confirm the tubing based on photos).

Both bikes are the same size and share the following: Ritchey Logic headsets, Shimano 8-speed bar end shifters, Shimano 105 cranksets and brake levers, Campy Veloce front derailleurs, Shimano 600 tricolor rear derailleurs, Selle Turbo saddles, Hogan canti brakes, and a lack of any water bottle braze-ons.

They differ in that Bike ‘A’ has: a Sachs 7-speed freewheel, Profile Designs stem, Mavic handlebars, Control Tech seat tube, Mavic rear hub, Mavic Paris Gao Dakar front hub, and Mavic GP4 tubular rims. Bike ‘B’ has a Shimano 7-speed Hyperglide freewheel, 3TTT stem, Shimano 600 aero seat tube, Shimano rear hub (not sure what type?), Mavic front hub, Mavic Open4 CD front rim, Sun Mistral rear rim.

Both bikes are in good shape but show use, although one shows less wear than the other. The biggest issue with both bikes is some surface rust that developed under the clear chainstay protective stickers on the drive side ... again, one worse than the other (sigh). But based on what I paid, and learning that the tubing and craftsmanship are high quality, I think I'm way ahead on this one.

The pics are 'as purchased', and although I’m not a cross racer, I’m looking forward to cleaning them up and having some fun. If anyone has any additional history or perspectives on these (relatively) early cross bikes I’d love to hear it. I’d also be curious to know if anyone else has purchased identical bikes before (a first for me), and what you did with them … Sell one? Keep them both and set them up differently? Or maybe that’s a different thread altogether …

4Rings6Stars

Sweet! Nice find.

If the top tubes are ~54cm, then I think you should sell one to me. I grew up ~20 miles from the shop and have wanted one for years... I have an aluminum (Alan) branded Hot Tubes cross frame that's way too big for me. It's hanging on the wall in the shop.

If they fit well and it's the type of bike you ride, I say keep them both. Maybe set one up for more road oriented riding and the other with some knobbies or gravel tires.

WNG

I'm surprised how competition oriented the frame build is....no water bottle bosses! You'd think a person would want those, for when one takes training rides on the bike.
Remove the water cage for the race.

Firstly, do they fit? If so, perhaps select the parts from both to build up one you'd ride. And sell the remaining bike.
Very cool bikes!!!

Zieleman

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing it, love steel CX.

mikemowbz

Wonderful bikes. I recently picked up a modern steel cross bike (Ritchey Breakaway Cross), and as much as I like it, these take the cake.

EL OS is quite the (extra) lightweight tube set for cross machines. I think 4Rings6Stars has the right idea, assuming they fit.

Looks like you've got good clearance on the fork; how's it in back? ~400mm axle-to-crown on the fork? High BB? I've been trying to wrap my head around the variations in modern CX geometry, and wondering how these compare...

pastorbobnlnh 

Great looking bikes! I've always wanted to see a HotTubes up close and personal. This is the first time I remember some being posted in C&V. Very sweet!

Just curious: Are you certain the Sachs 7 speed is a cassette? I've worked on a significant number of Sachs 7 speed freewheels, but have not seen a Sachs cassette. I'm currently using a Sachs 7 speed freewheel with Shimano indexed down tube shifters and the shifting is flawless. Have you taken off the rear wheel for a closer look? Here is a closeup of a 7 speed freewheel.

Bianchigirll 

Great looking bikes!! I hope more pics are coming


I understand what your saying about removing the cages for racing but I believe the idea was the bosses themselves interfered with shouldering and regrounding the bikes smoothly. Every true comp spec 'cross bike I ever saw lacked bosses, Alan/Geurciottis, Cramerottis

ColonelJLloyd 

Nice find! I was expecting to see a Surly when I opened the thread; pleasant surprise!

obrentharris 

Great find!

Many serious 'cross racers have two bikes. One is the race bike: The other is the pit bike. The pit bike is the bike that you grab out of the pit if your race bike breaks down, gets clogged with mud, etc. On a muddy course your teammates or mechanic will clean the mud off the race bike and have it ready in the pit for you on your next lap around. (Cyclocross courses are short, something on the order of a mile or so.) If you are wealthy or have great sponsorship both of your bikes will have top of the line components and may even be identical. I suspect that the racer from whom you got these bikes was more like most of us. He had some equipment sponsorship but not enough to provide two complete, identical bikes. So the best components went on the race bike while the pit bike got the best he could dig up.

So, if you decide to keep both, you don't have to set the bikes up identically to preserve their racing heritage.

Have a fine time riding them: 'cross is a blast for those with a certain peculiar frame of mind!
Brent

pedalnmetal

yep, 54cm C-C seat tube and 54.5 C-C top tube, which appears to fit me pretty well, but i haven't even really ridden them yet. they still have cobwebs and dust from storage. if i decide to let one go i'll certainly keep you in mind.



as mentioned above, they seem to be my size. i didn't even realize the lack of H2O bottle bosses until i got them home. i kind of wish they had them, but i guess it adds to the history of them being race bikes.



not sure about the measurements, but can try to get back to you on that.


no, i'm not sure about that, and you're probably correct. i should know these things, but as a newbie am still learning. seems odd to have such a mix of Shimano / Campy, other on one bike, but I'm guessing it works if it's there ...

cyclotoine

Wow those are beauties with some really cool early cross specific parts (cantilevers, small big ring)... the mavic hubs are really nice too. Enjoy those bikes. Unless you need the cash to justify the purchase I would hand onto both for now. Touch up the chainstays, build and ride them.

Personally I would keep on as a race type set-up for fun, the other I would add fender eyelets and bottle bosses to make a distance bike/commuter/gravel grinder

SJX426 

I would take care of the rust and likely keep them both. The pair is a complete history. I would also try to learn more about the racer and/or PO.

KonAaron Snake 

Really lie these! Love EL OS and I dig the builds. Congrats - that's a major score.

pedalnmetal

The racer / PO was Mike Barrett, who seemed like a really nice guy and still lives in southern MA. He said he got pulled into cross racing because he used to race moto-cross and some friends suggested he try it. He was mentioning a whole list of names of people he raced with back in the day, but unfortunately much of it was lost on me 'cause I don't know much about the early US cross scene.

cyclotoine

I think sometimes bike nerds get a little irrationally uptight about preserving history. There is some romantic idea that everything that happened in history is exceedingly important. I say get some braze-ons added to one of the frames and make it your own and ride it. They are cool for sure, keep the one you deem in nicer shape original and do what you like to the other.

pedalnmetal

i've been thinking exactly along those lines ... it might be nice to make one a more flexible ride with some braze-ons, and maybe a repaint. although part of me would feel like I was doing a dis-service by losing the original paint and logos. i could get the builder to do the braze-ons and a repaint (and maybe recreate the logos), but that would easily exceed the purchase cost of both bikes combined. can braze-ons be added without doing a repaint??

pedalnmetal

Just thought I'd post another recent local find, which also seems to come from 'earlier' in the history of cyclocross gaining more of a toehold in the US. Obviously, this doesn't have the same cachet as the bikes above for many reasons, but I think it's the first cross-specific frame built by Redline ... a (1997?) Conquest Cyclo-X. I don't think they offered complete builds at that point, but sold the frames only. The pics are 'as purchased' (quite dirty), so the rack and rusted chain are already gone and it needs an overhaul from being stored outdoors. It's mostly RX100, with a 105 rear derailleur and Sun ME14A rims. I figured it wasn't a bad pickup for $49, and if it turns out to be too small for me (52cm) it'll probably be let go to help with any costs of overhauling the 'twins' above.

fietsbob

the way to win CX races is having a clean bike in a sticky muddy day's race .

2 bikes a hose to wash off one and some one to do it,

and then hand you a clean bike the Next Lap at the Pits .

rinse and repeat.

ColonelJLloyd 

Kill that rack. Kill it with fire.

pedalnmetal

not only did i take it off, i disassembled it entirely before disposing of it so that it couldn't be used again ... and i'm a guy that looks for every opportunity to recycle.

ColonelJLloyd 

You did the right thing. Future generations are better off for your actions.

cyclotoine

looking at the frame you could probably get away with adding DT bottle bosses to one without destroying the logo but there is still a risk, then you could just do localized touch ups. It can be done. The other option is rivet style bottle bosses often used on alloy frames, however the hole required is larger then for a steel boss I think so there would be no going back. the drop outs I don't think matters, you can just touch them up after adding the fender bosses. If the tubes are perfectly round (which I think they possibly are) you should be able to find a clamp on solution also.

ColonelJLloyd 

There are DT, clamp-on housing stops. But, have you considered keeping the bar end shifters or trying integrated brake/shift levers?

pedalnmetal

i think we were just talking about the possible addition of braze-ons for H2O bottle cages and fenders, not for cabling (there are already cable stops on the DT for shifters, and TT for brakes) ... ? i'd probably plan to keep the bar end shifters for now.

ColonelJLloyd 

Man, my comprehension is definitely off today. A much easier solution is one or two of these and a couple small zip ties (don't bother with the velcro strap they supply). If you don't like that cage there are these.

While not optimal, these will allow you to mount fenders if you don't want to deal with adding braze ons.