The Race Video Thread!
#901
Senior Member
Cool video indeed.
Now, in terms of etiquette, is the big swing out there at the end to get a line to the finish which resulted in moving another rider (who appeared to be contending) off their line "just racing" or is that a no no? Not suggesting I'd attempt anything like that at my level, but just trying to get sense of the written/unwritten rules. It's pretty clear the other rider wasn't too pleased.
Now, in terms of etiquette, is the big swing out there at the end to get a line to the finish which resulted in moving another rider (who appeared to be contending) off their line "just racing" or is that a no no? Not suggesting I'd attempt anything like that at my level, but just trying to get sense of the written/unwritten rules. It's pretty clear the other rider wasn't too pleased.
The thing is if you have significant speed difference/delta then you can do stuff like that. For example if you're going 40 and everyone else is going 30 (or 30 and everyone else is going 20), it's possible to slice through smaller gaps. If you're going the same speed or you're not accelerating much then you really can't make such aggressive moves.
In this video I rode a pretty aggressive last lap. I thought that I couldn't swing out for the last turn, ended up missing the apex (i.e. going inside the manhole cover), and had to go wide to stay up (someone crashed earlier in that corner I think). I didn't want to swing out because I didn't think I had enough speed to clear the leadout train I passed. Ends up I was clear but so it goes. Normally I wouldn't make so many moves laterally but I had the speed and the room so I did. If my helmet cam doesn't look back I'm usually looking down, to check if it's clear for me to move. The big move, to the left, when I cut across behind the CLR guy, I looked down briefly as I was going. It was the riskiest move I made because the rider to the left was blocking part of my view, but I didn't see or hear anyone blasting up the left side so I figured it'd be clear.
Also, the closer to the line you get, and I'm talking the last 200 meters or less, the more you have to watch the riders not yet in the wind. I've waited to jump as late as 75m to go. In situations like that the other rider has to expect some movement. Maybe not as much movement as the winner made, but some movement.
For me, if there's someone obviously on a wheel inside the last 200m and I'm already out in the wind, I'll actually sprint right up next to them, holding back a bit if necessary, so that they're obviously boxed in. Then I'll go when I think I can go. It doesn't happen very often but one of the few times it did a photographer caught the action. The guy actually pushed me really, really hard. I pushed back, held my line, and the other guy ended up totally out of contention - he waited too long to go and ended up boxed in. There was only one guy to each side of him but that was enough.
He's pushing me with his forearm here. I stalled my sprint in order to hold him in place, then went when I thought it would be too late for him to go.
Photo by Jim Gerwick but I own it now
Overall I think the move was sketchy, i.e. not to emulate such moves until you're more fluent with pack riding, but without a better view I can't really say anything beyond that.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#903
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here's footage from my race on Sunday. uc santa cruz crit collegiate A's, finished 7th. small field, strong wind and few teammates so i had to race more conservatively. was forced to chase in the end and caught the break half a lap from the finish. rider in front of me let a gap go into the last corner so i had to sprint in the wind and couldn't close the gap.
#904
Senior Member
Here's a snippet of my race; since even my family thought the whole race was boring, I condensed it;
#905
Senior Member
Hard to tell, but if that rider that won is on the team of the helmet cams (he had one on, obviously), there may be a reason the helmet cam footage is not in the clip. I have a feeling that was a tight move. It's borderline dangerous. In the 3s or 4s that's the kind of move that can wipe out a side of the field.
The thing is if you have significant speed difference/delta then you can do stuff like that. For example if you're going 40 and everyone else is going 30 (or 30 and everyone else is going 20), it's possible to slice through smaller gaps. If you're going the same speed or you're not accelerating much then you really can't make such aggressive moves.
In this video I rode a pretty aggressive last lap. I thought that I couldn't swing out for the last turn, ended up missing the apex (i.e. going inside the manhole cover), and had to go wide to stay up (someone crashed earlier in that corner I think). I didn't want to swing out because I didn't think I had enough speed to clear the leadout train I passed. Ends up I was clear but so it goes. Normally I wouldn't make so many moves laterally but I had the speed and the room so I did. If my helmet cam doesn't look back I'm usually looking down, to check if it's clear for me to move. The big move, to the left, when I cut across behind the CLR guy, I looked down briefly as I was going. It was the riskiest move I made because the rider to the left was blocking part of my view, but I didn't see or hear anyone blasting up the left side so I figured it'd be clear.
Also, the closer to the line you get, and I'm talking the last 200 meters or less, the more you have to watch the riders not yet in the wind. I've waited to jump as late as 75m to go. In situations like that the other rider has to expect some movement. Maybe not as much movement as the winner made, but some movement.
For me, if there's someone obviously on a wheel inside the last 200m and I'm already out in the wind, I'll actually sprint right up next to them, holding back a bit if necessary, so that they're obviously boxed in. Then I'll go when I think I can go. It doesn't happen very often but one of the few times it did a photographer caught the action. The guy actually pushed me really, really hard. I pushed back, held my line, and the other guy ended up totally out of contention - he waited too long to go and ended up boxed in. There was only one guy to each side of him but that was enough.
He's pushing me with his forearm here. I stalled my sprint in order to hold him in place, then went when I thought it would be too late for him to go.
Photo by Jim Gerwick but I own it now
Overall I think the move was sketchy, i.e. not to emulate such moves until you're more fluent with pack riding, but without a better view I can't really say anything beyond that.
The thing is if you have significant speed difference/delta then you can do stuff like that. For example if you're going 40 and everyone else is going 30 (or 30 and everyone else is going 20), it's possible to slice through smaller gaps. If you're going the same speed or you're not accelerating much then you really can't make such aggressive moves.
In this video I rode a pretty aggressive last lap. I thought that I couldn't swing out for the last turn, ended up missing the apex (i.e. going inside the manhole cover), and had to go wide to stay up (someone crashed earlier in that corner I think). I didn't want to swing out because I didn't think I had enough speed to clear the leadout train I passed. Ends up I was clear but so it goes. Normally I wouldn't make so many moves laterally but I had the speed and the room so I did. If my helmet cam doesn't look back I'm usually looking down, to check if it's clear for me to move. The big move, to the left, when I cut across behind the CLR guy, I looked down briefly as I was going. It was the riskiest move I made because the rider to the left was blocking part of my view, but I didn't see or hear anyone blasting up the left side so I figured it'd be clear.
Also, the closer to the line you get, and I'm talking the last 200 meters or less, the more you have to watch the riders not yet in the wind. I've waited to jump as late as 75m to go. In situations like that the other rider has to expect some movement. Maybe not as much movement as the winner made, but some movement.
For me, if there's someone obviously on a wheel inside the last 200m and I'm already out in the wind, I'll actually sprint right up next to them, holding back a bit if necessary, so that they're obviously boxed in. Then I'll go when I think I can go. It doesn't happen very often but one of the few times it did a photographer caught the action. The guy actually pushed me really, really hard. I pushed back, held my line, and the other guy ended up totally out of contention - he waited too long to go and ended up boxed in. There was only one guy to each side of him but that was enough.
He's pushing me with his forearm here. I stalled my sprint in order to hold him in place, then went when I thought it would be too late for him to go.
Photo by Jim Gerwick but I own it now
Overall I think the move was sketchy, i.e. not to emulate such moves until you're more fluent with pack riding, but without a better view I can't really say anything beyond that.
As always...thanks for the reply and info. Good stuff.
#906
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My girlfriend came out to watch like 3 races and refuses to come out anymore. She says shes so bored and can't even spot me most of the time lol.
#907
From the Merced crit this past weekend - not my video, but I was in the race! Our guy got 3rd.
Check out the alley at 00:30.. nobody hit the wall luckily!!
Check out the alley at 00:30.. nobody hit the wall luckily!!
#909
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rbart knows the Chin Picnic course which goes through a tiight tunnel. My favorite crit course ever as there aren't really any defined or sharp corners and the finishing sprint is super super wide. COurse is also dead flat.
#912
Senior Member
I think you and I must have very different taste in crit courses.
#913
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#914
Making a kilometer blurry
I like some short climbs, lots of corners, varying widths, and a bunch of potholes and manhole covers. Throw in some high winds and rain, and it's glorious. I like a course that requires some creativity.
#915
Senior Member
#916
Making a kilometer blurry
If only. If I could race any European race as a pro, it would be Roubaix. It might suck once I actually got there, but still.
#917
Senior Member
Yep. I like punchy courses that bring the speeds down and sprints that start from low speeds. So I always liked Tim's course, and my favorite crit course ever is probably the Grant's Tomb crit in NYC (which is March 14, as it happens, but I suspect I'll have to miss it this year).
#918
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I only have 1 year more experience than you, so not the most expert opinion...but it looked like to me you were never drafting. You could have had the same pack position by doing 1/3 less work (ie without a cramped calf).
Skills building suggestion: pick a random guy, say the guy who finished 5th in this race, and, at your next race, stick to his wheel like glue. Everytime you fall off his wheel, work to get back on it. This will be hard for a few races, but it will get easier, and it will teach you pack skills.
#919
Senior Member
Thanks for posting. I watch these to learn.
I only have 1 year more experience than you, so not the most expert opinion...but it looked like to me you were never drafting. You could have had the same pack position by doing 1/3 less work (ie without a cramped calf).
Skills building suggestion: pick a random guy, say the guy who finished 5th in this race, and, at your next race, stick to his wheel like glue. Everytime you fall off his wheel, work to get back on it. This will be hard for a few races, but it will get easier, and it will teach you pack skills.
I only have 1 year more experience than you, so not the most expert opinion...but it looked like to me you were never drafting. You could have had the same pack position by doing 1/3 less work (ie without a cramped calf).
Skills building suggestion: pick a random guy, say the guy who finished 5th in this race, and, at your next race, stick to his wheel like glue. Everytime you fall off his wheel, work to get back on it. This will be hard for a few races, but it will get easier, and it will teach you pack skills.
Two weeks from now we have our weekly training crits and Tuesday Worlds, hopefully that will help some too.
#922
Senior Member
I hope those guys thanked you for the pull!
#923
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lol
#924
Next time, attack from further back in the pack - so that when you pass the leaders your speed differential is so much that they have no chance of jumping on to your wheel.
This is what p/1/2 attackers do, and it sucks when you're on the front going "fast" and someone blows by going "really really fast".
Of course holding it all the way isn't any easier, but you can get a bigger gap that way.
#925
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Towing the field up to the break is generally not recommended unless it is a threat to your team. As mattm says, attack harder, or take your flyer for 20 seconds, look down, then make the come around you before you grab their wheel to the finish.