Conic

I've been reading about folders for a few months and figured the Raleigh Twenty was the bike for me – retired guy, casual rider back on a bike for a couple of years after not riding for a long time, 9 to 12 miles a few times a week on mostly level tow path / rail trails and occasional three mile round trips to the grocery store. I want a folder so I can leave the bike in the car while running errands and shopping and then take a ride on the same trip rather than having to go home first to hang the Specialized on the rack.

Watched eBay and craigslist for a few months with no luck on a Raleigh in good condition (I have zero mechanical skills) at a reasonable price. A couple weeks ago up popped a Dahon Vitesse D7HG for a good price and only an hour drive to pick up.

The bike is basically new, bought two years ago by a woman intending to do a train commute from the Jersey suburbs of New York City. She made the trip three times, decided riding in traffic was not for her, and put the bike in the garage. When I got there to pick up the bike it was pouring down rain so I didn't take a test ride. Her story rang true, the bike looked brand new but but with a heavy layer of dust, – I just squeezed the brake levers and shifted through the gears … all seemed well and I bought the bike.

When the weather cleared and I went to ride it for the first time – wobble / stop – wobble / stop – wobble / stop. Oh my. What have I done? Finally got it going and found it is ok once up to speed, “squirrely” but ok.

So the question: Does the Raleigh Twenty have the same kind of squirrely quick steering as the Dahon? I'm trying to decide if I should keep this bike or continue the search for a Twenty.

HGR3inOK

Find a local bike shop that is not folder-adverse and have them check the bike. FWIW, my shop currently charges $50 for a minor tune up which includes adjusting the brakes, gears, hubs, headset and bottom bracket, minor wheel trueing and chain lubrication.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

Conic

Yeah, I asked at my LBS and they are willing to work on it should it need anything. I live in the sticks and trying to get to an actual Dahon dealer would be an all day affair. Right now everything works just fine. No problems with the bike, it just feels so different from my other one -- steers so quickly.

I'm really just wondering how the handling / steering compares to the Raleigh. Reading this forum for a few months, the words squirrely and twitchy seem to come up a lot. I do seem to recall hearing that the Xootr Swift (I think) handles like a full size bike but that's out of my price range.

Hoping to hear from somebody who has ridden a Twenty and some other folders, particularly a Dahon. I am content with the Dahon, just want to see if others think the Twenty feels more stable than other folders.

tudorowen1

If you ride a Specialized road or mountain bike you will find the steering on a Dahon very quick or twitchy..That is normal ..even more twitchy on a Brompton..A Raleigh 20 will be much the same I think ..perhaps a little better because of the frame geometry..Ride your Dahon for a couple of weeks or more and you will not notice..all 16/20 inch wheeled bikes are the same..The Dahon will be better than the Raleigh..ie..only 3 speeds..big fold compared to a Dahon..heavy..If they were so good Raleigh would still be an English company making a million bikes a year..This is the company that stopped making the Moulton Mk 3 ..a fabulous bike for the time and came out with the Raleigh 20..unbelievable...

pedroaragao

Hi,
Open your handlepost and you will probably see this:



Screw the hex nut between 10 and 14 numbers and test if handlepost fits better.
If you make it right, it should be no wobble at all. Or only when you pull it very hard.

After a somethime you will notice that this hex nut screw will uncrew from time to time(mine was montly).
Best solution is to use an counter nut to blot uncrew.

Sorry for bad english.

wahoonc

Most small wheel bikes feel a bit twitchy when you first start riding them.

Check the bolt that was pointed out in the previous post.

I have Twentys (3 of them) and they have their own steering issues. I also have a couple of vintage Dahons that are even more twitchy. The newer Dahons will feel twitchy, but once you get used to the handling it becomes more comfortable.

In your case I would stick with the Dahon.

Aaron

dezzie

A lot of the difference is weight and tyre thickness, I just sold a Raleigh shopper basically a twenty with racks, 451 tyres, it was like a barge, a very comfy barge, I have rode dahons and terns, all pretty much the same of a same, but light, twitchy and responsive, I own a xootr swift, its my daily rider and basically tried various tyres, fat tyres slowed me considerably but was comfy, the standard tyres were ok but I wanted to try slimmer, its now on 1.10 duranos and it is very fast but super twitchy, I also have a 50 year old moulton speed on 16 inch rims, it to is light and twitchy but because it has a little bit of suspension it smooths things out great and makes it more confidence inspiring, selling my xootr on ebay now as it does not float my boat anymore no matter what I have done to make it more comfortable for my aching back, love my moulton, feels just as fast with 4 speeds, comfy and practicle, as for the twenty, you can do stuff to it to make it lighter but if your not mechanically minded or on a budget, you get an old heavy but reliable bike, depends on what you want from it really, if you want reliable, practical and don't mind the weight, its fine plus its made of steel so bombproof, I know the dahons are light, fast and modern but I just don't trust the fold on them but I am 220 lbs, my xootr is great for that, its very strong with no wobbly flex in the frame, just know your dahon will need checking over more regular and you need to get familiar with how to adjust stuff like the hinges etc and lubing and adjusting. Sorry if I sound all confusing but I had wanted allsorts of folding bikes and tried many, but I can never find quite just what is my perfect bike just yet but the nicest I have rode so far is a moulton, that little bit of suspension makes all the difference to me, pity they are expensive though unless you can find an old stowaway version.

ThorUSA

many good responses
the raleigh is a great 3rd bike when you want it lightened up and modded to the gills. You end up with a very cool antique bike which has plenty of cult following ... but even after dumping 500 bucks into a good example, it will still be heavy and the ride will be so so.... Again if not mechanical inclined ( I mean really inclined, with plenty of knowlwdge about bottom bracket conversions etc etc ) just riding a standard raleigh will be a bear... think like 10 to 15 lbs difference and and and

The twitchy ride on more modern folders... yeah.. surely .. most people learn to like it and get frustated with their regular bikes, which steer like tanks or so it seems...

Some folks like the aber hallo stem extension, which moves the handlebar forward a little bit... will also take away the twitchy ness to a degree ... or the Tern Andros stem (you need a T handlepost for that to work , so its a pretty expensive upgrade )

There are very few special parts on the dahon, meaning every bike dealer can work on them, if you have a Dahon specialist than its quite ok, otherwise regular dealer is fine

Conic

Yeah, lot of good responses. Thanks.

To clarify, when I said “wobble” I didn't mean as if something was wrong with the bike – just that the steering was so touchy at low speed that I got very unstable and came to a very quick stop. I've found that once the bike gets up to speed it is much better. Got about 50 or 60 miles on it now and am getting comfortable with the handling.

A great 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] bike, huh? So I'm gonna come down with a case of BAD (Bike Acquisition Disease). It's a definite possibility.

I'm still fiddling to get a good riding position on the Dahon. I expected it be somewhat more upright than it is. That's one of the attractions of the Twenty to me. I'll have to look into something like that handlebar stem extender … after I figure out what seat I want … and a nice bell, and some lights, and a front cargo rack … and so it goes.

I hope one of these days I get to try a Twenty, though. Don't think I'd mind the extra weight – I'm a definite unracer.

fietsbob

Load Up The Front with Weight .. Low trail steering is steadier with weight on It..

My Bikes: [neither of the 2 mentioned] Pannier Rack on the Bike Friday Fork . Front Bag on the Brompton Carrier Block.

HGR3inOK

IHMO, the Biologic "Chime Brake Levers" are a very nice upgrade for a Dahon Vitesse D7HG. And the left lever has a built-in bell. Also consider a set of Biologic ARX (or Ergon) grips. For a front rack, the Tern Kanga rack is my pick. (I have one on my Dahon MU XL Sport.) I think ThorUSA has most of these items.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

Foldable Two

We had Dahon Boardwalks 8-10 yrs ago, now ride Bike Fridays and the wife has a very nice refurbed 1973 Raleigh 20. We actually like the quicker steering with 20" wheels - great in tight situations.

From what wife has said to me, Steering on the Raleigh 20 is a bit 'different' (twitchy) compared to the others. It is also very heavy compared to the other bikes mentioned - definitely feels like a 40 yr old bike. She rides it on 'vintage' rides, as I do my 1964 Schwinn Tiger. They both reflect their age even though they are in good shape.

Lou

mconlonx

Can't comment on Dahon v. R20, but I have owned and ridden a R20 and now ride a Birdy.

Bikes with small wheels can feel twitchy compared to full-size bikes, but it is easy to get used to; better in some situations, not as good in others.

Aside from the wheel-size difference, the R20 handled like a 40-50 year old Raleigh; the Birdy (and I would assume the Dahon) handles more like a modern bike.

Having built a customized R20, were I to look for another one, I'd probably opt for a KHS clone instead, and if I were looking for another folding bike to ride long term, I'd not be looking at either -- Dahon would certainly be in the running as a cheap bike; Bike Friday mid-range; Moulton cost-is-no-object.

However, there happens to be a nice metallic brown R20 out back in the shop gathering dust. I wonder how much the owner would want for it...?

tcs

Tire construction/pressure will change the feel of the steering. Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly referred to this as 'pneumatic trail'.

mconlonx

Of course he did...

Foldable Two

Wife's 20 has the same 1.75" Kenda Tires on it as on her BF Pocket 8, and same air pressure, too - world of difference between the bikes. (Pic was taken before the Kendas were installed on wife's R20.)

Stock R20's have VERY heavy, chromed steel wheels, so most/all of the 'high performnce' R20's you see will have modern, lightweight wheels.

Sheldon Brown's R20 sure wasn't stock.

Lou

Conic

The R20 is more twitchy than the others?

Interesting thought on the tire pressure. I've been riding with the tires pumped to the max. Might try softening them up a bit next time out to see what happens.

All in all, I'm now pretty content with the Vitesse. Probably going to go ahead and do some upgrades while keeping an eye out for a local R20.

Foldable Two

Twitchier than the two Dahon's we once had, and the four Bike Fridays we have now. Wife thinks it might be the narrower width of the R20's handle bars that contributes to it. She has ridden the R20 as much as 9 miles on a single ride, and thinks it's fun, but it's only a 3-spd bike vs. her 27-spd Crusoe, the choice for longer rides, especially if hills are involved.

I think an R20 makes a great 2nd bike, or in the wife's case, 4th bike.

Lou

social suicide

R 20 topics rule. https://www.flickr.com/photos/26743115@N08/5577811985/ a little Sun, Cane Creek, Origin8, MKS, Sturmey Archer, Phil Wood, and still under 50 lbs!