jawnn

Has any one tried using STP oil treatment in place of Chin-l? The STP stuff is just as thick as the over priced chain-l. I make oil paints and use aluminum hydroxide to thicken the oil. That is exactly what the STP oil treatment uses Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophophate (ZDDP) for. Then they claim that it is an anti-wear agent.

So what is the difference between the STP and the Chain-l ?

10 Wheels

Chain L Rocks for me...Never need anything else.

trailangel

I am going to guess that Chain-L has some STP mixed in it, but straight STP would be too thick IMO.

bradtx

jawnn, STP was never intended to be a stand alone lubricant. As it's formulated for a much harsher environment than a bicycle chain, I don't know if that matters. Let us know in a few thousand miles.

Brad

Wanderer

STP turns to glue in the cold................ IMHO

FBinNY 

I avoid chain lube threads and don't discuss comparisons because I don't use the forum to make or support advert claims.

However I might reasonably object to the term overpriced as applied to my product.

A 4oz. bottle of Chain-L is enough to provide lasting lubrication to 12-25 or more chains. With each application lasting 500-1,000 miles or more depending on weather, that's a lot of miles for the buck. The average Chain-L user probably spends less than $6.00 per year to maintain the chains on multiple bicycles, which IMO isn't over priced at all compared to all the alternatives. But those who think it's overpriced, are free to pass on it, and use whatever works for them --isn't a free market wonderful?

BTW- note that STP is not designed as a oil substitute, but as an additive made to wok with oil, not instead of it. Using STP as a lubricant is comparable to removing all the water from the car's cooling system and replacing it with straight anti-freeze.

fietsbob

As I understand STP adds stickiness when added to Motor Oils ..


Chain saw Bar oil has some stickyness , (but in the Woods most bar oil is used Motor oil)

Phil Tenacious is sticky too I use it in my 3 speed IGH, motorcycle chain oil has clingy chemical additives..


for details on the specific, chemical properties .. the services of a chemist working within the company developing those products

would be best , IDK if there are any on this Forum.

Burton

Cool so if you think zinc and aluminum are the same thing it would probably be hard to explain the difference between an oil additive and a specialized bicycle chain lubricant.

noglider 

What even made you think to compare them?

jawnn

I did not say they are the same, just that they do the same thing, ie; thicken the oil.

I was on a chemical forum asking how to make oil thicker, they recommended STP

gsa103

All bicycle lubrication parts are incredibly expensive on a per unit volume basis. Oil, lube, grease, etc are a small fortune compared to their automotive counter-parts. There's very little economy of scale for bike stuff. Most cars use 15 Qts of oil a year. Most people won't use 1 Qt of bike chain oil in their lifetime. You're essentially paying extra for the convenience of a small bottle with an easy applicator. The same is true for mineral oil, fork oil, bearing grease, you name it.

Chain-L is slightly more expensive than many other lubes, but not unreasonably so, since most lubes are about $10 for a 4 oz bottle. Probably some combination of materials cost and being a very small business owner. I don't get the sense that FB is Scrooge McDuck'ing with the money he makes off Chain-L. Many small business owners sell products out of a sense of obligation to the larger community and usually wind up running much smaller margins than a purely profit driven corporation.

Why not try some of the STP stuff, and report back on how it works. If you wind up diluting it, you're more than welcome to try selling another chain oil formulation.

I don't use Chain-L, and haven't tried it, so I won't comment on its performance.

jawnn

I see it is not as expensive as reported to me buy a bike mechanic that rejected it on grounds that it did not wash out the crud from your chain like sewing machine oils..... but can you give us a hint on how it is different in chemical composition?

Wanderer

I wouldn't expect Francis to espouse any of his formula, for his product.

But, it is good!

FBinNY 

STP is an oil additive, whose main purpose is to improve the temperature/viscosity index. Oils thin when heated, and STP is intended to counter that and help oil maintain target viscosity in hot auto engines. Keep in mind that it came onto the market before multi-grade oils were common. Those somewhat (or totally) preclude the need for STP because they already do what STP is intended for.

Chain-L is an oil/additive blend intended to work best as a chain lube in bicycle conditions, ie. between -40° and 120° F. The formula includes a variety of additives to serve the specific needs of bike chains, and equally importantly does not contain additives that I feel would be counter-productive.

FBinNY 

Thanks, but I do espouse it. I just won't expose the details.

demoncyclist

Ummmm... lubricants shouldn't wash the crud out of anything. That is what cleaning your chain is for. Lubricants are to keep the moving parts moving- while also keeping a little of the crud from getting in there in the first place.

noglider 

Do you think unclearly, or are you just writing unclearly?

STP is not intended to be used by itself as a lubricant. Chain-L, on the other hand, is a lubricant. These are different purposes professed by their respective makers. The fact that the intended purposes are clearly different makes them a terrible pair of things to compare. How would you compare a bath towel with vanilla ice cream? It's a silly question, isn't it? STP and Chain-L are not as far apart as those two things, but I hope I've made a point. Others have been trying, and you haven't caught on yet. Here's hoping.

The reason you're not getting a satisfying answer is that you are asking the wrong question.

noglider 

Perhaps your question is, "Is STP a good chain lube?"

And the answer is yes or no, depending on whom you ask. Thousands of people have asked what the "best" chain lube is, and the question keeps coming up. This has probably been going on for generations. Basically, whatever you use has its service interval. Thicker stuff needs less frequent application than thinner stuff.

clydeosaur

Lubricants also have the job of carrying contaminants / debris/ dirt. Why do you think you change oil in a car? There's more going on than thermal degradation. I'd assume similar (though a different environment) properties are favorable in a chain lube as well. Wipe off the contaminated lube / crud while keeping the internals clean, lubed and debris free.

jyl

Cars have a pump driven system specifically designed to circulate oil through the bearings, a filter, and usually a cooler. Bike chains have no oil circulation system. I don't think there is much of a parallel. I suppose if you ran your chain in an oil bath, oil would constantly be flowing through the bearing surfaces.

I go through one little bottle of Chain-L per year, so the price of that product (or of other bike chain lubricants) doesn't make much difference to me.

John Nolan 

Just have to say: I've been using Chain-L for three years, including using it on the bike I ride through the Canadian winter, and I just moved on to my second bottle, so it's not overpriced!

KLiNCK

I have never tried STP (or any other type of "home brew" type recipe) but I have tried many different commercial bicycle chain lubes.
Rock and Roll (Red and Gold), Tri-Flow, Pedro's, Finish Line, Phil's Tenacious and Chain-L.
I like a really quiet drive train and I get the best results with Chain-L.


Whisper quiet.

It can be a little messier to apply than some of the lighter lubes, but you just have to remember to wipe off all excess after applying.
I re-lube every 3-4 weeks, spin my chain through a rag after every major ride and it stays clean for the life of the chain.
You can't beat the Chain-L IMHO.
And the smell?
Delicious!
Thanks for a great product Francis!

clydeosaur

The parallel is the oil/s properties themselves, not the environment they live in. Besides, even though internal engine oil is pressurized (if you are exluding splash bath as well) and filtered, it still becomes contaminated. Not arguing, just clarifying what was said earlier.

prathmann

If you just want to make the oil thicker, why not use an oil that's thicker to start with? Oil comes in a wide variety of viscosities.

gsa103

That largely depends on your chain maintenance practice. I'm lazy and like just being able to wipe the chain down without the need for a separate de-greaser. The thinner lubes will tend to also carry some of the road grit out of the chain. Obviously, a thicker lube wouldn't do that, but might do a better job keeping grit out of the inside of the chain. Like everything else with chain oil, it all depends.

Almost anything works as chain lubricant, some better than others. Even WD-40 is a perfectly acceptable solution if applied before every ride. What works best for an off-road rider in Tucson, AZ probably won't be optimal for a winter commuter in Seattle.