TransitBiker

I have yet in several decades, to come across a town where cycling is allowed on the sidewalk. They are not even wide enough in most places for a cyclist to pass a pedestrian, let alone fit two cyclists side by side. Further, sidewalks often abruptly end, and where they end usually has no ramp down onto the roadway for a safe continuance of travel. There is nothing on there about age, because children are not exempt.

It also states that cyclists need amber reflectors or something on the side. How many do i see with that? Never seen one, unless the pedal reflectors are counted. I think the last time that whole thing was updated, Joe Breeze had yet to get into the repack ride.

- Andy

CrankyOne

You must live in a very unusual place from what I've seen where there are often more people riding on the sidewalks than the road (and lots of news articles complaining about all of the bicycle riders on the sidewalks and bicycle riders complaining about how dangerous the roads are and that they need Dutch type infrastructure).

Hypno Toad

OK, so you agree with my point, location matters, cool.

However, you continue to make broad statements about statistics without any reference. Based on some of your earlier posts, and misrepresenting statistics, I will ignore these stats. I agree that roads in the US are dangerous for all road users, more deadly than they should be. This is true in cars and on bikes. However, stating statistics without reference is like running around screaming the sky is falling. Bring references for these statistics or don't bring them up.

I never, in any post, suggested children ride the roads. In fact, I've said the opposite - cities that ban bikes on sidewalks make exception for children to use bikes on the sidewalk.

My final statement to you, you can enjoy the sidewalks (please don't hit any walkers); and I will continue to ride the roads, as I've done since the early-80's. Cool? Cool. I'm done with the thread, have fun.

greg3rd48 

In NYC riding on the sidewalks is completely illegal unless you are a child. There are just too many pedestrians and shark attorneys waiting for their next client.

cobrabyte

sidewalk, road, parking lot, bike path, grass, trail...whatever gets me there.

MZilliox

I personally do not think people should ride on sidewalks except when forced to. it is rude to pedestrians, and frankly, the road is yours to ride. The name is "sidewalk" so i think it is for pedestrians. Riding in the road is not so bad. Dress brightly, use manners, be safe. I commuted in South Africa for 2 years, no respect for bikes there, but too many pedestrians on the walkways to even consider riding them. you will get used to riding with cars. its really not as scary as it seems.

indyfabz

In Philadelphia, no one may legally ride a bike on a sidewalk in a business district. Outside of business districts, if you are age 12 or over, you may legally not ride on the sidewalk. There is actually a public service campaign going on here in town. There are posters at places like bus shelters reading "Its called a sideWALK for a reason."

The city's bike share program just started two weeks ago. I have seen several people riding the rented bikes on sidewalks. Not good.

CrankyOne

What this says is that they don't feel safe (understandably?) riding on the roads.

San Pedro

I live in Aichi, car capital of Japan, in a small town (about 30-40,000 people). Even in the cities next to me like Okazaki (450,000) most people drive, not many walk for commuting, and a fair amount ride bikes (mama chari mostly). Drivers are not so mindful of riders, like me, on the road, and sometimes trucks will squeeze me to the shoulder when they pass me. However, when I go to the big city, Nagoya, there are a lot of walkers and that's when pedestrians are annoyed at the people on bikes.

indyfabz

I think it's some of that. Done right, though, cycling in Philly isn't bad. They just don't know that.

But there is also the one way factor. Philadelphia has many one way streets, especially in the center of the city, where basically all of them are one way. If a tourist needs to go south and picks up a bike on an even numbered street (Odds go south. Evens go north.) I think it's more likely that they will simply ride on the sidewalk. It's just too convenient for them to pass up.

CrankyOne

One ways are an issue. In many cases they've been found to actually make motor traffic worse and more dangerous so many cities that had them have been significantly reducing them. I think a reality is that if someone's destination is 3 blocks away against a one-way then they'll often choose to go the 3 blocks rather than the 5 or more required to go with traffic direction. This is why every one-way in The Netherlands and nearly every one in all of northern Europe has cycletracks in both directions to allow for this safely (even in countries like Norway with very little bicycle infrastructure they'll do this one thing).

Also, in 40 years or research The Netherlands found that people are comfortable riding on a road with traffic only if there is very little traffic (generally less than 500 cars per day) and that traffic is going less than 18 mph. As traffic increases beyond 500 cars per day and faster than 18 mph then the number of people who are comfortable riding a bicycle decreases quite quickly (I think it's about half by 25 mph, 1/5 at 30 and 1/25 at 40). This is why their standards now require a segregated bikeway along any road with greater than 18 mph traffic or higher volumes*. When they don't adhere to this then people don't ride bicycles and that increases motor traffic something they're trying to prevent. That's what we're seeing here when people choose to ride on sidewalks.

* Higher traffic volumes is actually not a fixed 500. So long as the number of bicycle riders is 2x that of cars then the volume can go up to about 1000, 3x bicycles and it can go to about 1500 and 4x bicycles can go to a max of 2000.

CrankyOne

So do you see people riding on the sidewalks in Okazaki but switching to the roads in Nagoya?

wphamilton

This is it in a nutshell. 40% of a small number (fatalities) is an even smaller number.

We have greater risk from non-fatal accidents because they are far more common. Personally I'd be more worried about, for example, a 1 in 100 chance of an injury than a 1 in 6,000,000 chance of a fatality for a given bike trip.

It's the most common cause of fatality because when we encounter cars approaching us with high speed (especially in rural roads, where we have another higher frequency of fatalities), they are more often approaching from behind than from any other direction. Fatalities are more likely with higher speeds, higher speeds are more common from behind. It's rare, but it comes from behind us.

I disagree with the reasoning given in the quote however. They are the most difficult to avoid because of the speed differential, and the high frequency of the situation. Mirrors, or looking back more often, may or may not have significantly altered the number of fatalities (I suspect not).

CrankyOne

In some cases perhaps. There were numerous in MN the past few years where drivers swerved at the last second and hit bicycle riders. These were on urban roads within the Twin Cities and from what the police reports indicated it doesn't sound like there was anything the riders could have done. I think a couple were in bike lanes and the others on roads without specific bike lanes.

The two rural incidents I looked at were both hard to tell if there was any advance indication of what would happen or a last second swerve with no time for the bicycle rider to react.

I'd love to see someone do a fairly in-depth analysis of both fatality and injury crashes so we could get some good data on causes. I agree on the fear of serious (or even semi-serious) injuries being a greater threat though death still carries some weight with me.

Back on the sidewalk vs road debate... If I'm going to be hit I think I'd prefer to be hit by someone exiting a drive @ 10 mph than someone already going 45 mph.

San Pedro

The two cities are rather far apart. Nagoya has some areas designated for bikes, on the side of sidewalks mostly, but most places people are riding on the sidewalks slowly there. People on road bikes do tend to use the road though.