Inst

Hi! I got really stupid one day and decided I wanted a DT Swiss 180 hubset with disc brake support. Then I woke up and my pillow was gone, but I've more or less committed to a really expensive wheel-build, complete with internal spoke nipples in titanium, of all things, but here's the problem. The provider does not produce their own internal spoke nipples, but they have an open design that's unthreaded, of all things, and no matter how hard I've looked, I've been unable to find any other titanium spoke nipples that are internal in 2.0mm or 2.2mm for my rim.

Is there any reliable or effective way to put threads into the spoke nipples? I'm fine with the spokes; there are conventional spokes as well as spoke cutters and threaders for titanium, but I can't find the tools needed to thread an unthreaded spoke nipple.

Sixty Fiver

Titanium is great for frames and a lot of bicycle parts, spoke nipples not so much.

The small weight saving you get over brass in addition to the high cost just is not worth it.

GravelMN

Aluminum alloy nipples are lighter than brass if you are so inclined, and I would guess a whole lot cheaper than titanium. DT Swiss lists their brass nipples as weighing 1g each. Their aluminum alloy nipples weight .31g each. So on a 32-spoke build you are looking at about a 20g savings. Even if the titanium nipples were half the weight of the aluminum alloy nipples, you'd only save about an additional 5g.

AnkleWork

Yes, with a lathe or screw machine using titanium specific speeds, feeds, tooling, and coolant.

nfmisso

MOQ 100K pieces. Seriously.

AnkleWork

Some people have screw machines in their garages. =)

Jeff Wills

Family forum, buddy. Watch your language.

Inst

Tit is good for durability, basically. It's corrosion resistant and can be relied upon to last years without needing replacement, which is a good thing when you plan to use tubulars + internal spokes that need to be reglued every time you need to play with the spoke.

AnkleWork

Really, it's a matter of degree -- it's a metal, not magic. Some Sikorsky helicopters crashed because Ti fasteners failed after a few tens of load cycles. And most brass nipples function perfectly for many millions of cycles. Go figure!

Isn't something wrong with your wheels if you need to "play with" your spokes?

fietsbob

some were made in the past , but company may not have remained in business by now.

Drew Eckhardt 

I've never had to true a wheel I built except after bending a rim which won't be an issue with the carbon rims that go with internal nipples.

I've never had any problems with properly lubricated alloy nipples, even riding in Colorado with salt and slush on the roads. I currently use zinc anti-seize which corrodes preferentially over aluminum, although plain grease seems sufficient.

Reynolds 

You could buy 1 nipple and use a 2-56 tap and see how it turns out.

Drew Eckhardt 

Titanium is heavier than aluminum - about 4500kg/m^3 versus 2700-2800.

FBinNY 

I'll accept both the OP's headline statements as true, and leave it there.

CharlyAlfaRomeo

If you think this is dumb you should see the his thread in the Triathlon sub-forum.

Inst

I'm trying to pair these things with titanium spokes, so galling will result, but thanks for suggesting aluminum with anti-seize, although I realize now that I'll have to deal with galling.

AnkleWork

"And the hits just keep on coming!"

How does galling fit with your idea of "playing with" your spokes?

Inst

Galling iirc refers to the thread falling apart because of the difference in material strength, right?

I read up on titanium spokes a long time ago; the problem with titanium is that it's generally way too expensive; it's over $400 / kg for the material, and it offers only marginal improvements on say, aluminum alloy. However, Titanium has the advantage that it's corrosion resistant and has a non-linear response to flex.

For actual weight improvements, what I read is that titanium offers extremely marginal improvements over steel / aluminum (or whatever other material they use for spokes) paired with aluminum nipples, because titanium requires brass nipples to avoid galling. However, since titanium spoke nipples are also available, it should be possible to pair titanium with titanium for a more pronounced improvement over steel / alum combos, albeit at a relatively extreme price.

Recently, I found a seller that's offering titanium spokes at a price of $1 a piece. I'd probably have to do material analysis to verify that it's actually titanium, but once you compare that with the fact that my wheelbuild is going to cost more than $1200, $1500 once the cost of tyres are included, the marginal additional cost from titanium spokes and nipples is pretty reasonable, coming out to around $150 for the spokes and nipples.

===

Hey, I've got the dough and I want to do it. I am still custom-building a wheel, so it's not like the $4000 people dump on racers, and the combination of anodization, carbon (cheap Chinese carbon, though), rear 88mm, front-disc and rear-rim, and bright high-end hubs is sufficiently bling. And that's not to say that the titanium, because of its flex characteristics, will provide better life to the hub and frame by helping to absorb shock sustained from the inflexible carbon rims.

===

The only thing that I do worry about is that the $1 titanium will have quality problems; if I do direct from supplier, I can verify the tit grade, but it might be more expensive and I would have to commit to the entire $150 batch at a time.

Bill Kapaun

How much is the weight savings vs 15/16 ga. DB spokes?
How much per lb?

You better look up "galling".

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/Thread-galling.aspx

"Galling is most often seen in stainless steel (especially when using lock nuts), aluminum, and titanium. Fasteners with damaged threads and fine threads are particularly prone to galling. Hardened steel bolts, especially when zinc plated, rarely gall."

TheManShow

Want to take weight off your bike, consider a diet, it is cheaper than titanium parts.

Inst

I am still trying to get my bike to the point where I can pack it into a bag instead of locking it outside. Tried with a 37 pound Schwinn Loop folder, almost had a heart attack dragging it through Grand Central Station and the NYC subway system after a bus trip, tried again with a 27.5 pound Montague Navigator, much better but not to the point where I'd rather backpack it instead of lock it, and I want to see what it'll be like at 19 pounds. The point is that if you can backpack it, you don't need a lock, and you don't ever have to worry about getting your bike or bike parts stolen because it's always with you.

I somehow doubt I'll be able to hit my weight target, though. I am guessing I'll be able to gain 1 and 1 pounds by goldplating the fork and the drivetrain, and with what I'm planning to do with the wheels I can expect 2 pounds off the wheels, the planned conversion on the handlebars will add more weight, and the frame can't be replaced except by a $700 Changebike frame that still weighs about the same as the Montague frame,

AnkleWork

Ain't you just all up in there!

Inst

You know, if you enjoy your old fart status too much, in the short term, hypoxia will induce drowsiness, in the long-term, brain damage.

GravelMN

I just can't see the $$$ for titanium spokes/nipples that provide only a marginal weight improvement over SS spokes, like the Sapim Laser 14-17-14, with aluminum alloy nipples. Seems like there have got to be more cost effective ways to shave a few grams.

Drew Eckhardt 

You can get titanium spokes with cool rainbow anodizing.



Stainless steel spokes don't come that way.

Titanium spokes only seem to be available in straight 14 gauge which makes sense with the material having only half the stiffness of steel. 2.0mm titanium spoke weight is comparable to 2.0/1.5mm steel, and drag about 80% higher.