shokhead

So is it save a few hundred grams or have better dependability.I think thats mostly riding vs racing unless you got the bucks.

Singlespeedster

I don't know how much i buy into the argument that the higher end stuf fis less dependable.

I've been in the bike industry and around bikes for quite a while, and in my experience, the higher end shimano stuff outlasts the lower end stuff.

In general, road componentry lasts forever, especially compared to MTB stuff, so the scale may be such that the average user cannot see the horizon, even with 105 or lower componentry. But a lot of folks that could care less about racing put gobs of miles on their bikes, and could benefit from longevity and lighter weight.

YMMV,

A

pokey

Not if it's installed right.

Veloci*Rapture

*sigh* You know, I never said that all high end components are less durable, but somehow people are overgeneralizing. I was just pointing out that you have to look at the engineer's goals in the design. In fact, it could mean that a higher end component is equally durable while being lighter and more expensive.

There are clear limits one what you can do with certain materials and designs and budgets. All I am saying that you shouldn't take it on faith that big bucks means greater durability, because the big bucks might have been invested in other areas besides durability. I think we can all agree that durability is only one of many characterstics that is the mind of an engineer when designing a component. In other words, do you research.

I know I am taking the mushy middle ground here, but things are rarely so black-and-white as to make blanket statements about price and durability.

Patricia

How does the lighter, more expensive and more durable Dura Ace group figure into your equation? Parts are lighter, of higher quality and the finish will last much longer. The operation of which will also work better, longer.
I can see maybe where Record has no real longevity benefit over Chorus since they are functionally nearly identical so in that case you can say Record is more expensive and lighter but not more durable. But at that point, how much longer than forever do you need it to last?

ChipRGW

So, just to get this straight...
105 is heavier than Ultegra
105 is less expensive than Ultegra
105 may or may not work as well as Ultegra, opinions vary slightly, leaning towards 105 working almost as well as Ultegra
Make up your own mind where you want to spend your money.

This is MY opinion...
For the sake of this discussion, I will ignore the other brand of components.
If you are riding mostly for fun, fitness, club rides etc. 105 is probably all or more than you'd really ever need for a long lasting groupset with excellent performance. It's probably good enough for racing.
For more frequent racing adventures, get the Ultegra. It may work slightly better and weigh less. Provided you aren't on a tight budget. If you are, then 105 is still probably adequate.
If you are racing frequently, and you demand the best shifting, lightest components, then get the DA stuff. Provided you aren't on a tight budget. If you are, Ultegra or 105 are still probably adequate.
If you are the "techie" type, then buy the highest level group you can afford.

Veloci*Rapture

I will stipulate that Dura Ace is lighter and more expensive. As for durability, I don't know of any real studies done that actually compared the Mean Time Between Failiure rate of various components over time, BUT let us assume that Dura Ace is signficantly more durable. Well... what you pointed out fits into the equation just fine. Dura Ace is Lighter, Stronger, but NOT cheaper (you improved 2 things, not all 3). Now if Dura Ace was Stronger, Lighter, AND Cheaper... that would contradict what I've been saying, or it might mean there has been a revolution in materials or production which can happen from time to time.

Or, you can hold Stronger (durability) constant and just improve lightness, but it would still be more expensive. Another possibility is to downgrade durability to get even lighter (which might take the edge off the expense, but it will still go up a bit). Again, what I am trying to say is that there are a lot of variables that can be played with, so price alone does not mean durability.

I like to think of it as "You don't get something for nothing."

Also, I did point out that durability is only one characteristic. I fully admit that I oversimplified by mentioning only Stronger-Lighter-Cheaper. There are many other things to consider.

As Pokey pointed out, the Dura Ace bottom bracket is light and strong, but there was a trade-off (other than in price) in complexity. It's not as easy to install the Dura Ace bottom bracket as Ultegra, and if you get it wrong, it won't last.

RacerX

Considering the fact you edited nearly every single one of your posts in this thread, who knows what you originally said.

RHNiles

Go for the Ultegra's, you will not be sorry. I have over 16K on mine and I will say if anything they are shifting better now than when they were new.

Rick

pokey

I think durability is a dead fish.

Veloci*Rapture

I've been very polite and been trying to get my point across. I admit that after hitting post button, even after proofing, sometimes I immediately realize upone reading it again I made a mistake or realize my point wasn't made clear.

I didn't realize that there was some unwritten rule that ones crediblity is lessened if you edit posts.

I had expected disagreement, but I did not expect my honesty and character to be questioned. I even expected to be dead wrong, as it has been known to happen.

In the future, I will just post follow-up correction posts instead of editing.

Sorry for my indiscretion.

Singlespeedster

Just an FYI.

I was responding to the post directly above mine. I was not responding to you at all.

A