Aero vs. Lightweight - What's better?
08-23-15, 02:57 PM
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For me it's not possible to get that weight. I am a Squash player for more than 10 years now with a few years on the pro tour. I got so heavy legs from all the training during this time. I don't know my my body fat percentage, but I am very skinny on the upper body. I can't see myself losing more than 1-2 kg or maybe 3!
08-23-15, 03:09 PM
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This thread is amazing. I was actually wondering the exact same thing. I've been looking at the Specialized Tarmac Comp and comparing it to the low-end Venge Elite, both are $2800 USD but the Tarmac comes with Ultegra components while the Venge comes with 105's. Not looking to buy, mind you. Just drooling.
Aero bikes are really cool.
Aero bikes are really cool.
08-23-15, 03:20 PM
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nothing I said in this post was BS, it is acquired from experience and extensive research. much of what I said about aero vs light bike is recycled from the GCN video which I mentioned. and I noted that this discussion at it's essence in an oversimplification.
it is fact that if you have weight to lose then you should do that first
it is fact that if you have weight to lose then you should do that first
it will make a larger improvement than anything you can buy
it is also fact that when carbon splinters it explodes.
08-23-15, 03:30 PM
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nothing I said in this post was BS, it is acquired from experience and extensive research. much of what I said about aero vs light bike is recycled from the GCN video which I mentioned. and I noted that this discussion at it's essence in an oversimplification.
it is fact that if you have weight to lose then you should do that first, it will make a larger improvement than anything you can buy. it is also fact that when carbon splinters it explodes. it is also fact that given the UCI regulations, pro's don't and often can't use the lightest most aero equipment available to them because of certain restrictions on approved wheelsets, weight limits, and prohibition of certain types of aero equipment.
yes the comment about golf was a joke, although it holds true that if you can't swing a club, then you can't really buy performance there either. I wasn't even grumpy when I posted this LOL
it is fact that if you have weight to lose then you should do that first, it will make a larger improvement than anything you can buy. it is also fact that when carbon splinters it explodes. it is also fact that given the UCI regulations, pro's don't and often can't use the lightest most aero equipment available to them because of certain restrictions on approved wheelsets, weight limits, and prohibition of certain types of aero equipment.
yes the comment about golf was a joke, although it holds true that if you can't swing a club, then you can't really buy performance there either. I wasn't even grumpy when I posted this LOL
With respect to BS you posted in this thread I was speaking specifically to two things. First off your assertion that lightweight is more important if you're doing sprints is completely false. The faster you go the less weight matters and the more effect being aero will have.
The other thing that's complete BS is your statement that "Carbon UBER light bikes, components, and aero bikes, EXPLODE and send SHARDS of flying carbon SPEARS when they are wrecked."
If this were true half the pro peloton would die every year.
Last edited by CharlyAlfaRomeo; 08-23-15 at 03:37 PM.
08-23-15, 03:34 PM
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That's right, but most riders could lose kg like 2 whole bikes 
So why paying 2000 more for 1-2 kg less on your bike if you have way to much kilos on yourself
Not meant that your not allowed to buy expensive light bikes ^^
So why paying 2000 more for 1-2 kg less on your bike if you have way to much kilos on yourself
Not meant that your not allowed to buy expensive light bikes ^^
08-23-15, 04:31 PM
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It also depends where the weight is located. Losing a pound off the wheels of a bike is going to be a bigger deal than losing a pound off the rider's stomach.
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08-23-15, 04:33 PM
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For a number of reasons, 2#s on a bike is very different that the same 2#s of body weight.
Part of the reason is that you and the bike don't move as a single rigid unit, but you move the bike under you when riding. So a lighter bike will not only feel snappier, it'll actually be easier to ride, especially when climbing.
Part of the reason is that you and the bike don't move as a single rigid unit, but you move the bike under you when riding. So a lighter bike will not only feel snappier, it'll actually be easier to ride, especially when climbing.
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08-23-15, 04:48 PM
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There are two other considerations if you have to ride these wheels down the grades you just rode up. Braking (assuming you are using caliper brakes) and handling in cross winds. Good braking usually requires aluminum tracks on the wheels, adding weight. Too aero a wheel can also be very hard to control in crosswinds at high speeds.
If all your climbs are summit finishes, none of this matters, If you are riding unsupported, it could matter a lot.
Ben
If all your climbs are summit finishes, none of this matters, If you are riding unsupported, it could matter a lot.
Ben
08-23-15, 05:01 PM
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Scientifically validates answer: " a pound from the wheels is worth about 1.001 lbs anywhere else." (google Kraig Willett wheel performance."
Last edited by asgelle; 08-23-15 at 05:05 PM.
08-23-15, 07:19 PM
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Lots of what you posted in this thread, and others, is BS. Plus you like to throw around the term asshat like you're something special. Ease up a little, you come off as more than a bit of one yourself.
With respect to BS you posted in this thread I was speaking specifically to two things. First off your assertion that lightweight is more important if you're doing sprints is completely false. The faster you go the less weight matters and the more effect being aero will have.
The other thing that's complete BS is your statement that "Carbon UBER light bikes, components, and aero bikes, EXPLODE and send SHARDS of flying carbon SPEARS when they are wrecked."
If this were true half the pro peloton would die every year.
With respect to BS you posted in this thread I was speaking specifically to two things. First off your assertion that lightweight is more important if you're doing sprints is completely false. The faster you go the less weight matters and the more effect being aero will have.
The other thing that's complete BS is your statement that "Carbon UBER light bikes, components, and aero bikes, EXPLODE and send SHARDS of flying carbon SPEARS when they are wrecked."
If this were true half the pro peloton would die every year.
google 30 bananas a day post of video of carbon failures. maybe you and I have different opinions on the meaning of the word "explode" but the fact remains that metal simply does not fail in this way.
you have also chosen to focus on the only 2 of like 87 points that I made where you think you can sound like you're right, but ignored everything else that I said, which is in fact, fact. asshat. *edited to include "asshat"*
08-23-15, 07:23 PM
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There are two other considerations if you have to ride these wheels down the grades you just rode up. Braking (assuming you are using caliper brakes) and handling in cross winds. Good braking usually requires aluminum tracks on the wheels, adding weight. Too aero a wheel can also be very hard to control in crosswinds at high speeds.
If all your climbs are summit finishes, none of this matters, If you are riding unsupported, it could matter a lot.
Ben
If all your climbs are summit finishes, none of this matters, If you are riding unsupported, it could matter a lot.
Ben
08-23-15, 07:24 PM
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For a number of reasons, 2#s on a bike is very different that the same 2#s of body weight.
Part of the reason is that you and the bike don't move as a single rigid unit, but you move the bike under you when riding. So a lighter bike will not only feel snappier, it'll actually be easier to ride, especially when climbing.
Part of the reason is that you and the bike don't move as a single rigid unit, but you move the bike under you when riding. So a lighter bike will not only feel snappier, it'll actually be easier to ride, especially when climbing.
08-23-15, 07:25 PM
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Incorrect. Sprinting occurs at high speed and aero is critical. Acceleration is actually fairly low during a sprint so weight plays much less of a role. Have a look at Mark Cavendish. He remains low and aero while sprinting out of the saddle. Power to CdA is what matters in a sprint.
08-23-15, 07:26 PM
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once again, this has been tested and largely disproved. bottom line your muscles are pulling up weight. rider/bike doesn't matter, it's a simple physics equation of power to weight. we are not talking rotating mass, just simply pulling an object of a given weight up a hill. 2lbs body weight is basically equivalent to 2lbs on your bike and COSTS A LOT LESS.
08-23-15, 07:30 PM
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Hogwash. Would you rather carry 2 pounds strapped to your stomach, or 2 pounds hanging off the end of a 3 foot stick? The location of weight totally matters in the riding experience (not to mention just moving the bike around).
would you rather be 180 pounds carrying a 15 pound bike, or 150 pounds carrying a 45 pound bike up a hill? Yes, you are moving 195 pounds in both cases, but the two experiences will not feel the same.
would you rather be 180 pounds carrying a 15 pound bike, or 150 pounds carrying a 45 pound bike up a hill? Yes, you are moving 195 pounds in both cases, but the two experiences will not feel the same.
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Last edited by pacificaslim; 08-23-15 at 07:36 PM.
08-23-15, 07:49 PM
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Why not do both? The thing that often gets overlooked here is that a couple pounds will make a difference. It doesn't matter if someone buys it or not.
08-23-15, 07:50 PM
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once again, this has been tested and largely disproved. bottom line your muscles are pulling up weight. rider/bike doesn't matter, it's a simple physics equation of power to weight. we are not talking rotating mass, just simply pulling an object of a given weight up a hill. 2lbs body weight is basically equivalent to 2lbs on your bike and COSTS A LOT LESS.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
08-23-15, 08:35 PM
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Those of us in the faired speedbike part of the sport have done a lot of thinking and experimentation on this. Except for the narrow limiting case of very steep climbs at very low speeds, aero trumps weight. Try beating the time for a 60 pound velomobile over an average century ride on a "regular" road bike- and get ready for major disappointment. Over any normal course, the aero bike wins- every time.
Last edited by delcrossv; 08-23-15 at 08:39 PM.
08-23-15, 09:16 PM
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After that maybe take a look at track sprinters. While they may stand up to accelerate, the fastest part of the sprint takes place seated, particularly during a flying 200m.
You're a real gem.
08-23-15, 09:29 PM
#46
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And exactly how many carbon frame failures, whether or not they hurled a barrage of lethal missiles, can you actually document. Look, show me quantitative, peer reviewed data if you want any sort of credibility. Without it, you're just running your mouth.
