Leaning in (is it called carving?) or banking. how much is too much?
08-27-15, 09:23 AM
#26
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Yes, the laws of physics apply to bicycle cornering. For a given speed, mass and turn radius, the force at the contact patch of the tire is always the same, regardless of lean angle. Some argue that there are bike control advantages to leaning more or less than the bike, and that may be true but that's getting into the advanced class, not 101. But you can't cheat the fundamental physics of cornering by leaning a certain way.
One thing I do know is that trying to incorporate everyone's suggestions, or picking and choosing from various opinions, is a quick way to mess up your cornering. In the beginning it's better to learn a specific technique from someone who's good at it, and just practice.
08-27-15, 10:04 AM
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The fall is a good time to practice "look where you want to go" my dad taught it to me at 16 when I had my learners permit. The tool that appears in the fall in Ohio is the Wooly Bear Caterpiller. You can stare right at one and the front tire will go right over it, or stare right NEXT to it and just miss it :-). Many times it helps us to pick a stable line (so we are not all over the road with traffic or other riders) that threads the needle between things we really should not ride over. Looking at the obstacles means you have to sort of yank the bike around them at the last minute rather than smoothly and gracefully sliding around them :-).
08-27-15, 01:25 PM
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Carving is when the cyclist takes a smooth, fluid line through a turn, carrying good speed.
As for leaning, its something the bike and rider do as one in road cycling conditions. That is, the rider and bike have the same angle, the angle being largely described by how fast you're going through the turn.
If you're doing it right-- again, speaking road bike on road; MTB is different-- I can't really think of a circumstance during cornering when one would put their body in a different plane, off-center of the bicycle.
Put your weight low and forward (in the drops), get the outside leg down weighting the pedal, and lean the bike into the turn as much as your speed requires. If you're overcoking it a bit, splaying the inside knee a bit toward the apex can help tighten the line.
But as has been said upthread, this is largely intuitive and automatic once you realize there is no effective, alternate way to get through turns. Pushing the limit is scary, though the limit is usually further out there than you think. It's certainly unforgiving, though, and once the front tire slips, it's game over. Therefore, bike cornering is really about facing down your personal fear, and having the courage to trust your technique and equipment.
I lost the front wheel in a turn once, and it sucks, but I've also overrun the line and wound up on the outside curb, which was way scarier; if I'm going down, give me the open road, and not the signs, ditches, cars, and other variously square-edged, sharp, pointy, hard, things found off the road. When you realize stuff like that, you'll be a leanin' assed b*tch like me, just scared to do anything but!
As for leaning, its something the bike and rider do as one in road cycling conditions. That is, the rider and bike have the same angle, the angle being largely described by how fast you're going through the turn.
If you're doing it right-- again, speaking road bike on road; MTB is different-- I can't really think of a circumstance during cornering when one would put their body in a different plane, off-center of the bicycle.
Put your weight low and forward (in the drops), get the outside leg down weighting the pedal, and lean the bike into the turn as much as your speed requires. If you're overcoking it a bit, splaying the inside knee a bit toward the apex can help tighten the line.
But as has been said upthread, this is largely intuitive and automatic once you realize there is no effective, alternate way to get through turns. Pushing the limit is scary, though the limit is usually further out there than you think. It's certainly unforgiving, though, and once the front tire slips, it's game over. Therefore, bike cornering is really about facing down your personal fear, and having the courage to trust your technique and equipment.
I lost the front wheel in a turn once, and it sucks, but I've also overrun the line and wound up on the outside curb, which was way scarier; if I'm going down, give me the open road, and not the signs, ditches, cars, and other variously square-edged, sharp, pointy, hard, things found off the road. When you realize stuff like that, you'll be a leanin' assed b*tch like me, just scared to do anything but!
When I am leaning into a right hand turn and taking a bit of an extra chance by going faster than I know I should it always seems to be my back wheel that slides out a bit...
08-27-15, 02:17 PM
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Perhaps a handling expert will have a different take, but rear wheel sliding - on the road not braking - is kind of weird. In my opinion. I'd personally look to the wheel and tire. Tire pressure, loose spoke, loose in the dropouts. Downhill, I'd ask if you'd moved your weight forward, which I guess is still possible but not the likely culprit in my mind.
08-27-15, 02:22 PM
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I doubt your rear wheel will often slide in a turn, 99% your rear wheel will maintain grip, or it slips and you go down. It's very rare to have the rear wheel slide from lateral force, and you are able to recover from that.
You can recover if the rear wheel starts sliding from too much braking, but sliding from lateral force is very difficult to recover from. If you are leaning and the rear looses traction, you are going to fall sideways towards the direction you lean, you can't really recover from that.
You can recover if the rear wheel starts sliding from too much braking, but sliding from lateral force is very difficult to recover from. If you are leaning and the rear looses traction, you are going to fall sideways towards the direction you lean, you can't really recover from that.
08-27-15, 02:34 PM
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Look up counter steering. The simple explanation is that as you lean into a turn, you put slight pressure on the inside handlebar and effectively straighten the front wheel. Doing this will feel weird at first, but it will help you to carve turns like you wouldn't believe. As mentioned above, you need to keep your weight above the bike and it helps to extend the inside knee. Start out at slower speeds and see what it feels like. Do it enough and it will become second nature.
It seems counter-intuitive at first but really seems to make a difference. Motorcyclists do it all the time and since their cornering speed is generally faster the effect is more pronounced. However IMHO it also makes a significant difference in cornering a bicycle.
08-27-15, 02:47 PM
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08-27-15, 03:26 PM
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Countersteering as I know it:
08-27-15, 03:58 PM
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08-27-15, 04:00 PM
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08-27-15, 04:04 PM
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