barkersoldbean

I came across this thread - I am wanting to replace bb7 callipers with Spyre callipers to improve braking on a 200mm disc rotor (F&R) tandem (IBIS). Does anyone see a problem in doing a straight swap (i.e. I haven't bought them yet) with the usual fiddle on adjustments?

Thanks for any advice

twocicle

you will need a different adapter bracket. the one used with a BB7 is too short due to the extra washers (CPS) that Avid uses to align their caliper. A standard sized bracket will be a few mm taller.

barkersoldbean

I do beg your pardon for my ignorance - I have not done anything with callipers before - I am not entirely sure what "bracket" I have presently, but lets say that this is indeed an Avid "bracket", then would this "standard sized" bracket be readily available or could the existing Avid one be shimmed/modified to suit?

bwebel

I'm not sure that you'll see a great improvement. I just installed a spyre on one of our tandems, with the BB7 on another, and I can't say I find much difference. The Spyre's are a little lighter, and I do like that they come with an integrated barrel adjuster. The Spyre was a new install, I don't know that I'd go out of my way to replace BB7s with them.

Baird

twocicle

Use either the TRP IS adapter bracket of appropriate size (ie: 203mm for 203mm rotor) or the one from Shimano (I like this one better). If in doubt, call TRP tech support and inquire, or have someone with tech knowledge do the conversion/install.

barkersoldbean

Thanks very much for your help - much appreciated.

B1KE

Has anyone found the TRP Spyres to be very weak and as a result upgraded from the stock pad to a metallic/alternative pad? If so how were your results?

gracehowler

I do not know about Spyres, but our BB-7 work much better with metallic though we choose to run organic. (noise)
R&J

radsmd

Our comotion triplet on order will be coming with the spyres. Looking forward to trying them out, although we will be a relatively light triple team at 300 lbs.

shlammed

Get good metallic pads. it will change your perspective on them.

B1KE

How much of a change of perspective will I get? I had BB5s and upgraded to Spyres but they were so weak and mushy that I went back to the 5s. It seems like when both pads move, it really limits modulation and you can't feather the breaks lightly like you would with Avids. I really wanna like the TRPs and have them dialed in perfectly. Tell me your experience.

B1KE

What brakes were you running before? Looking forward to hearing you experience.

radsmd

We have not received the triplet yet. In production, but will update when we have a chance to ride it.

gracehowler

What do you consider good metallic pads?
R

shlammed

anything that isn't a 'white box' metallic pad.
get some swissStop metallic pads, enjoy the noise they make and how you can actually stop now.

LelandJT

I've now spent some time on Spyres on a single bike with 6" rotors and the rear of a tandem with a 10" rotor, both using Dura-ace 9000 levers. On the single bike I thought they were great but on the tandem it was mushy with vague feel. The extra cable length of a tandem means more cable stretch and the lever moves too much from the point of contact to lock up. When you introduce the weight of a cable coupler hanging under the bottom tube and a little friction in the housings you realize TRP's return spring is too weak as well. I tested it back to back with a caliper made specifically for tandems and definitely preferred that one over the Spyre even though I wanted to like the TRP due to its larger pads, symmetrical movement, and 3mm pad adjusters on both sides. If TRP would make a tandem specific caliper with more spring tension and more aggressive ramping they'd have a winner.

twocicle

A simple fix is to add a spring inline, between the arm and cable fixing nut/end point. Made mention of this in post $329. Really just the same issue with most cable type disc brakes where cable run is a drag :/

Other than wire and casing, another variable in the equation is lever model/type. Not all levers pull the same amount of cable. Even the Shimano road levers are different between the last few models, so cable brake results vary.

Paul J

We've been riding most of this season on our new Co-Motion with the Spyres and have been having good success. This has included many long on the east coast descents, some a mile. I'm not totally pleased with the lever pull as you can bottom-out the lever on the bar but it is stopping well. This is in comparison to V brakes with and without the drum on our other tandem.

twocicle

Bottoming out the lever is usually due more to mushiness or slack in the cable casing & wire run than the caliper, unless there is too much distance from the pads to the rotor (which can be adjusted on both sides on the caliper). If you find you can't uptake wire slack without the caliper lever moving due to insufficient spring tension, it is simple to stiffen that up by adding a spring-over-wire between the caliper swing arm and barrel adjuster anchor point.

Leisesturm

After I changed out the original flat-bars and associated brake levers on our tandem seen here, I had to add the inline Travel Agents that can also be seen in the photo. They worked fine to restore lever travel, but they introduced so much drag that, once applied, the pads would not retract. Not even the front ones. So I got small coil springs (which can also be seen in the photo) and they worked well to overcome all the stiction cause by the Travel Agents. I thought of this all by myself and I am a little surprised to see that others have thought of it too. It's a good thing I am handy that way because my LBS would never have thought of it. In fact they refused to have anything more to do with servicing the bike after I modified the brakes. As it happens I now have TRP Spyres mounted on the bike and the rotors have been upgraded to 180mm. I didn't know about compressionless housing when the photo was taken some years ago. I am on the search for some and soon the cable you see (and the Travel Agents) will go away and braking performance should be at least more direct, if not actually improved.

twocicle

Well, the "spring assist" idea was posted back in 2003

Since the Spyre cable pull ratio is compatible with road levers, you should not need the travel agents (your previous Avid calipers were likely the mtn version which have a different pull ratio, needing the agents to adapt your newer setup with road levers).

If you wish to improve the rear brake stopping power, try a 203mm rotor instead of a 180mm. I think you will find the front/rear balance to be more equal.

Paul J

I had just been tightening with the cable adjustment but last night I adjusted the pads a little closer to the disc and have much better lever action and good stopping. I do want to look into compression less cable housing in the future but this morning's ride was great!

fietsbob

Good..

Reading in Touring and mechanics forums, Some people cannot seem to sort out getting them adjusted to function properly..

twocicle

Ah good to hear.

Adjusting the pad distance by just using the cable tension is bad because that uses up the caliper travel range, not leaving much left over for actual brake modulation. When adjusting any cable actuated disc caliper, first thing is to slacken the cable, then adjust the brake pad distance, and finally readjust the cable tension. This helps to ensure the caliper arm is at the full open position. Adding a "helper spring" to the caliper actuator arm can allow for more cable tension without needlessly closing the actuator arm.

Paul J

I'm brand new to disc brakes with this bike, years and years with side pulls and cantilevers so was a little nervous working on these. Not getting finger prints of rotors or contaminating the pads had me a little gun shy. The are really easy to adjust so I'll need to learn how to replace the pads and to know when to replace rotors. When I "eye-balled" the gap it was obvious that they could come in some without causing drag, I did wonder if things expand when heated-up that I needed to allow for. It would be nice fit you could use a feeler gauge to set the gap but this seemed to work well and we didn't have any drag during our first ride. The pads have a little step which I think probably allows you to see how much wear has happened on the pads These are quiet and work well. We have a little over 500 miles on these so a adjustment is probable in order anyway but I think they were adjusted pretty wide from the start. I now need to figure out the best options for pads and rotors for down the road when replacement is in order. Does anyone have an idea on life for pads and rotors?