Insurer Blames Elite Cyclist for His Own Death
10-29-15, 01:43 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 947
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate 2006, Litespeed Pisgah , Specialized Roubaix 2008, Trek Madone 2011
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Insurer Blames Elite Cyclist for His Own Death
10-29-15, 01:58 PM
#2
Stand and Deliver
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,340
Bikes: Cannondale R1000, Giant TCR Advanced, Giant TCR Advanced SL
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Yes, sad and very poor response from ins co. Probably should be moved to A & S. Not much else to say but get an attorney.
10-29-15, 02:26 PM
#3
SuperGimp
Eh, it's a legal strategy to limit their exposure, but it certainly comes across like dirty pool, especially considering it's a government agency.
Yay, governments.
Yay, governments.
10-29-15, 02:53 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,929
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,933 Times
in
2,053 Posts
I just don't gett why people hate insurance companies.
10-29-15, 03:07 PM
#6
Senior Member
I was riding on the shoulder and was hit by a car passing on the right. His insurance company said it was my fault because I was riding a racing bike.
10-29-15, 03:26 PM
#7
Grillparzer
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 643
Bikes: Surly Cross Check
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
This seems to be a common theme in Canada. I can't find a link to it now, but there was another cyclist killed recently by a DUI. The police said the cyclist was responsible for the accident because he didn't have lights on his bike.
10-29-15, 03:44 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,036
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
The former at least has an element of "there but by the grace of God" to it, and in those shoes you'd at least want all the facts that are in your favour to be noted. The latter, lock him away and melt down the key.
I do think it's ridiculously tone-deaf of a government insurance company to try and blame the victim in the OP, though.
10-29-15, 03:46 PM
#9
Boom.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pittsburgh -> Cleveland -> San Francisco
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I would have worn a nicer kit if I knew I was about to leave a dent on the hood of an Acura.
10-29-15, 04:58 PM
#10
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,803
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Liked 1,931 Times
in
1,162 Posts
Man, I hope there's a particularly awful place in Hell for the ethically corrupt, morally bankrupt, soulless monsters that would actually file that kind of drivel in court in such a case.
10-29-15, 06:11 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Palm Desert, CA
Posts: 2,504
Bikes: Speedvagen Steel
Liked 249 Times
in
157 Posts
Kelly B who was the other cyclist killed in that incident was a friend from a long time ago. These were safety conscious strong cyclists who were on their side of the road. This situation seems to be a cookie cutter template that the insurance company is following which sucks to say the least but will hopefully sort itself out. There are no winners in this. A drunk driver mowed these guys down, plain and simple... 3 dead and multiple lives ruined forever.
10-29-15, 06:28 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,825
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It is because of this very issue, there are no significant penalties for hitting cyclists, why is why I don't ride on the road.
The best example is this one Jury Acquits Driver Who Killed The Sister In Law of Professor Alan Dershowitz | JONATHAN TURLEY
In summary: USPS worker slowly rolls over woman on bike, bystanders scream at him to stop, he leaves the scene of the accident, jury acquits him!
Later Alan Dershowitz and brother won a $4.6M civil suit, but not criminal charges were ever laid again!
10-29-15, 08:48 PM
#13
Senior Member
Double Jeopardy. Once you are found innocent, you cannot be tried again for the same offense.
10-29-15, 09:13 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,334
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Liked 4,336 Times
in
2,790 Posts
The insurance company was using an old legal precedent, often paraphrased as "if you don't like my driving, stay off the sidewalk". 
Ben
Ben
10-29-15, 10:11 PM
#16
Kit doesn't match
10-30-15, 02:42 AM
#17
Senior Member
Is there an actual drug and alcohol screen of all participants in the accident? It would seem that would be mandatory for a fatal or serious injury accident.
I think it is a valid point that the rider was probably not hugging the shoulder. However, if the cyclist was fully in his own lane, and the car was not, then the car is 100% at fault.
Unfortunately one can never count on a jury being knowledgeable about cycling. And, at least in the USA, jury selection isn't about choosing knowledgeable jurors, rather it is about choosing a jury to win, so it is quite possible that cyclists and sports enthusiasts would get excluded from the jury.
I think it is a valid point that the rider was probably not hugging the shoulder. However, if the cyclist was fully in his own lane, and the car was not, then the car is 100% at fault.
Unfortunately one can never count on a jury being knowledgeable about cycling. And, at least in the USA, jury selection isn't about choosing knowledgeable jurors, rather it is about choosing a jury to win, so it is quite possible that cyclists and sports enthusiasts would get excluded from the jury.
10-30-15, 03:42 AM
#18
24-Speed Machine
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
This is more than sad. It is criminal. But the ICBC doesn't care. I know it sounds opportunistic. But since the ICBC didn't find the driver at fault for crossing the line and killing the cyclists. I hope they did find the driver at fault for the passenger that also died.
10-30-15, 10:23 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zinj
Posts: 1,826
Bikes: '93 911 Turbo 3.6
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My college English prof said that Dante's Divine Comedy should have had a special place for wordiness.
10-30-15, 11:17 AM
#20
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,475
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Liked 894 Times
in
458 Posts
It's just a pleading. It's quite typical to put every conceivable defense in the answer.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
10-30-15, 11:59 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,892
Bikes: Fuji Sportif 1.3 C - 2014
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
And lawyers.
It's the lawyers' job to represent the insurance company to pay out as little as possible. Lawyers just have to follow legal and ethical standards. They don't have to have a moral compass. Actually, having one might be a detriment to being successful in that profession.
GH
It's the lawyers' job to represent the insurance company to pay out as little as possible. Lawyers just have to follow legal and ethical standards. They don't have to have a moral compass. Actually, having one might be a detriment to being successful in that profession.
GH
10-30-15, 12:14 PM
#22
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,119
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,650 Times
in
1,111 Posts
10-30-15, 12:18 PM
#23
Senior Member
It's just a pleading. It's quite typical to put every conceivable defense in the answer.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
10-30-15, 02:29 PM
#25
It's just a pleading. It's quite typical to put every conceivable defense in the answer.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
Not an expert on Canadian law, but typically in most US jurisdictions, you don't put an affirmative defense in your answer, you waive it.
So you plead the kitchen sink, then things get whittled down as the facts are developed in discovery. There's really nothing to get worked up about here.
It's highly likely this case will settle and likely for policy limits.
And lawyers.
It's the lawyers' job to represent the insurance company to pay out as little as possible. Lawyers just have to follow legal and ethical standards. They don't have to have a moral compass. Actually, having one might be a detriment to being successful in that profession.
GH
It's the lawyers' job to represent the insurance company to pay out as little as possible. Lawyers just have to follow legal and ethical standards. They don't have to have a moral compass. Actually, having one might be a detriment to being successful in that profession.
GH
What's your moral compass like, merlin??
