Miele Man

Wrong way riding nightime Stealth/Ninjs bicyclists. Dark colour bicycles, no lights, no reflectors, dark clothing and no traffic sense at all and riding the wrong direction on a two-lane or more road. They often just appear in front of you as if they'd exited a wormhole or something.

Next is the sidewalk bicyclist who suddenly decides to cut across the street but doesn't even glance before veering off of the sidewalk at a 90 degree angle to cross the road.

The sidewalk bicyclists who persist in riding at speed on the sidewalks in business areas.

Cheers

jfowler85

You missed the point of contention. The issue here is one of discrimination, labeling a deaf cyclist as reckless due to a medical handicap. The earbud wearer has a choice to put the earbuds in; the deaf rider does not turn his or her deafness on or off.

Presumably the cyclist, like many lacking a particular sense chronically, is adept at compensating with other senses. Why, exactly, would one rely on sound anyways?

eff-J

You might have missed my point. I think we're actually in agreement here. I'm saying that any reasonable person would not label a deaf cyclist as reckless.

Because they're obviously not, and it has nothing to do with a genuine medical condition vs. the ability to choose to put earbuds in or not.

It's because the ability to hear traffic is not a requirement for safe (non-reckless) riding. The fact that we don't consider deaf riders to be unsafe or reckless was offered as proof of that.

The particular reason why we can't hear the traffic (earbuds, deafness, everyone driving electric cars, etc.) is, IMHO, essentially irrelevant to the argument's logic.

jfowler85

Ah, yes then I did miss that. I am in agreement with you, apparently.

SHBR

The average driver in your area must be really passive eh?

I've had buses damn near flip over with the full intention of right hooking me. My personal favorite is the right hook from the far left lane. (GPS idiots abound here) There are many riders here, esp. ebikes and motorcycles that routinely blow through lights, its only a matter of time before they meet one of their own kind in the middle of an intersection.

ptempel

Maybe running a red light at smaller streets and there is a car a few lengths away. I try to not be an a** h*** about it and still do stop at major intersections and busy crosswalks.

Riding the center line on a two lane road when cars are stopped at a red light (and some are blocking the right side). I guess its better than riding on the sidewalk?

ptempel

This doesn't break any rules, does it? I do the same and think its safer to use the turn lane and go with traffic. Just be sure to use hand signals to indicate that you want to make a left turn.

RubeRad

I can't imagine it breaks any rules in any states. But to do it requires crossing at least one thru-lane of traffic, so care is required, and I imagine some paranoid people would consider it to be reckless.

PatrickGSR94

Using the left turn lane to turn left is the safest way to make a left turn. You're the most visible and least exposed to points of conflict when turning left in this manner.

However my father feels that a cyclist using a left turn lane "like a motorcycle" (as he says), is extremely dangerous. Nevermind the fact that most motor traffic travels in groups or "platoons" due to traffic light controls, and crossing lanes in the large, open gap in traffic carries no more danger than anything else we do in everyday life.

RubeRad

I agree with you, but there are some times where the "platoons" (or "cohorts" as I call them) don't work out, and I decide instead to go straight through the intersection, stop on the other side, turn left, and wait for the light to allow me complete my left turn.

PatrickGSR94

I have done that once or twice, very rarely though. I don't feel safe being so far right as to be in the crosswalk area when there are cars that may try to turn right, or when I get to the other side, cars trying to turn right on red. It's better to just turn right, then make a safe U-turn and go straight across - a "jug-handle" turn as it's known to some people. Works well when you're on a large, busy road and the street to your right is smaller and/or has less traffic waiting at the light.

jfowler85

I've been in and around physics and physiology for a little while and am not familiar with speed differential - presumably it refers to the difference in speed between you and the car. Ability to perceive a car's presence, in the situation you've presented, is largely dependent on the car's velocity. I could buy your argument under a few circumstances:

1) Car is coasting with quiet exhaust mufflers and smooth tires
2) Electric motor'd car with smooth tires
3) Car is travelling very fast...eg you're pushing 18mph vs the car's 50mph

Otherwise, hearing an approaching vehicle is an indicator to actually look for one behind you when you aren't acutely aware of the space behind you, especially in the winter for those of us who wear skull caps which cut wind noise while still allowing ambient sound through. As far as the physiology, I'm fairly certain that someone facing into traffic, without the benefit of sight, would not be able to determine in which lane a given car is approaching until said car is basically right at the person's feet.

PatrickGSR94

I have to agree with MMACH5 on the sound issue. Sound is very much a BAD indicator of a car's presence.

All too often the wind noise in my own ears makes an approaching car totally undetectable other than seeing the car in my helmet mirror. Also there are places where I'm on a small road with a nearby parallel interstate, and the noise of traffic on the interstate sounds just like a car coming behind me, but then no one will be there.

This is pretty much the exact reason why I started using a helmet mirror. I simply could not rely on sound to tell when a car was coming behind me, and I don't want to be turning back to look every few seconds.

RubeRad

Yes, every intersection is different. The one I'm thinking of, the left-arrow I want to use goes green at the same time as the straight-thru arrow. So if my timing is off, it's easy enough to go straight through and wait (taking care as you note to avoid the right-hook)

mcours2006

Since I mounted a mirror on my helmet just two weeks ago I have been relying on it, a lot, and have gotten to the point where I don't feel comfortable or safe riding without it. I still think, however, that sound is an important input for knowing the traffic around me, especially in the early morning hours when there isn't a lot of traffic out. Under these conditions it is much easier to detect the presence of vehicles behind me. I think it would be foolish to close off this sense by using earbuds. Perhaps even reckless.

MMACH 5

I don't use earbuds. However, I don't fault anyone who does. On a regular basis, I ride with two guys who are deaf and I feel just as confident in their abilities to lead the group as anyone else on the ride.

I-Like-To-Bike

Fits right in with your opinions about listening to music.

RubeRad

I use earbuds to listen to podcasts all the time, and it's always more of an issue hearing the talking over the traffic noise than the other way around.

hooCycles

Extremely strong username to post-content correlation. I rarely rely on sound when the car's "MMACH 5" number is above 1.

PatrickGSR94

I also listen to music but use an external bluetooth speaker, which regularly gets drowned out by wind noise and traffic noise.

For me, wind noise is an issue at any and all times, even when there is hardly any traffic. And when there's little traffic, I think a car is more likely to sneak up on me if I happen to not be looking in my mirror as often as I should.

yooperbiker

Adding to the items listed by others:

Riding a fixie with no brakes in traffic, especially when lacking the skills to even skid the rear wheel in feeble attempt to stop bike when needed.

Miele Man

On 2 lane roads with bi-directional traffic it can be hard to hear the sound of an overtaking vehicle over the noise of an approaching vehicle or a vehicle that has approached and passed you from the direction you're headed.

Cheers

heywood

I often wear ear buds on long boring stretches of one of my commutes and I can hear perfectly fine.. Isn't it okay wear them (like a car radio) as long as I can hear things around me? Blasting them sure I can see that is stupid but it's the same as wearing sun glasses at night while driving.

eff-J

I really need to go back and try to edit that post of mine. People seem to keep misinterpreting it! :-(

Anyhoo, since you asked, IMNSHO:

1.) Yes, it is okay to wear them
2.) ...and that's true whether or not you can hear things around you
3.) No, blasting them is not necessary stupid
4.) No, it is not the same as wearing sunglasses at night while driving. That's vision. Much more useful than hearing when it comes to driving/riding!

What is important when riding a bicycle is being aware of, and paying attention to, what is going on around you. That is a state that does not depend upon hearing well (or at all--the rightful acceptance of deaf riders being proof of that). Nor is it a state that is magically granted to you by being able to hear.

In other words, it really is possible to blast your earbuds and still maintain a perfectly safe level of mindful situational awareness. It also possible for one to ride in a dangerously distracted state without any earbuds at all.

In other, other words: Being able to clearly hear traffic is no match for a good shoulder-check.

DosWheelsBtr

Seems ike a ******