Training for Racing All Disciplines
#7926
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
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Tired and slightly hung over today. Great, just how you want to feel when [MENTION=95878]Racer Ex[/MENTION] shows up for a little ride. And brings a teammate.
A short, easy ride, no climbing. Well just one little climb. But it's not that long. Or steep. Well actually I don't know the route, we've drummed up a local friend to show us around.
In the end it was 53 miles on tired legs. But good company on a fine day in beautiful weather. No complaints.
A short, easy ride, no climbing. Well just one little climb. But it's not that long. Or steep. Well actually I don't know the route, we've drummed up a local friend to show us around.
In the end it was 53 miles on tired legs. But good company on a fine day in beautiful weather. No complaints.
#7928
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
[MENTION=351576]Heathpack[/MENTION] [MENTION=10280]racer[/MENTION]ex - have fun today!
[MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION] - feel better, and hopefully fast. Herbal tea intervals are good!
[MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION] - feel better, and hopefully fast. Herbal tea intervals are good!
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#7929
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
My team has a team ride planned at Woodside this afternoon. No, I'm not attending. Rest day for me. I'm going to clean and prep the TT bike. Sponge intervals.
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#7930
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
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Openers for this weekend's stage race, the first race I've done in a year or so. 4x1' that started from a standing start in 52-14, full power for ten seconds then shift to a more reasonable gear at full power for the rest of the time, five minutes RBI. Or, how to raise your HR almost 40 bpm in a minute. I managed to clip in the first try on all four, amazing how I can screw that up sometimes. It got over 80 degrees while I was out there, went through two bottles in an hour and a half.
It'll be my first time racing my category (Cat 4) rather than M55+, it should be interesting. My goal for this race is to get used to racing again and finish with the pack. We'll see how it goes.
It'll be my first time racing my category (Cat 4) rather than M55+, it should be interesting. My goal for this race is to get used to racing again and finish with the pack. We'll see how it goes.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
#7931
~>~
Our coach "back when" was a firm believer in getting a very fast, clean and consistent wobble-free start from the gun for good positioning for the 1st corner. It used to be a serious drag race from the line w/ the inevitable shoulder bumping and clashes of getting cleated into toeclips/straps with a good many who had bad starts dropped at the get-go ( Bye!). A good start was crucial and we practiced them, over and over against the stopwatch until it was muscle memory in charge.
Do you have times for 30-40 meters from a dead start line in a variety of gears to select the proper starting GI or was this a Big Power training series that we just never did in the dim and misty past?
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 03-17-16 at 04:01 PM.
#7932
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
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That is one Big Gear to start in, but whatever works: Works....
Our coach "back when" was a firm believer in getting a very fast, clean and consistent wobble-free start from the gun for good positioning for the 1st corner. It used to be a serious drag race from the line w/ the inevitable shoulder bumping and clashes of getting cleated into toeclips/straps with a good many who had bad starts dropped at the get-go ( Bye!). A good start was crucial and we practiced them, over and over against the stopwatch until it was muscle memory in charge.
Do you have times for 30-40 meters from a dead start line in a variety of gears to select the proper starting GI or was this a Big Power training series that we just never did in the dim and misty past?
-Bandera
Our coach "back when" was a firm believer in getting a very fast, clean and consistent wobble-free start from the gun for good positioning for the 1st corner. It used to be a serious drag race from the line w/ the inevitable shoulder bumping and clashes of getting cleated into toeclips/straps with a good many who had bad starts dropped at the get-go ( Bye!). A good start was crucial and we practiced them, over and over against the stopwatch until it was muscle memory in charge.
Do you have times for 30-40 meters from a dead start line in a variety of gears to select the proper starting GI or was this a Big Power training series that we just never did in the dim and misty past?
-Bandera
I just received notice that we had to relocate the RR and TT courses. Part of the original RR course is part of one of the detour routes to get around the I-10 closure at the LA/TX line.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
#7933
Version 7.0
Track session yesterday. Motor work and standing starts.
A 52/14 is a 100.3 gear inches based on a nominal 27 inch wheel. Many racers I know will use a 100.3 or bigger gear in team pursuit or the individual pursuit. It depends how fast one plans to race and the desired leg speed. I used a 91.8 yesterday for starts but I have raced team pursuit with a 96.4. Starting is more about technique than the size of the gear. Of course, the larger the gear, the more strength one needs to get off the line for the same initial velocity as a smaller gear.
Another technique I have seen at the track for practicing starts is a weight vest and use a race gear versus using a larger gear to improve strength.
A 52/14 is a 100.3 gear inches based on a nominal 27 inch wheel. Many racers I know will use a 100.3 or bigger gear in team pursuit or the individual pursuit. It depends how fast one plans to race and the desired leg speed. I used a 91.8 yesterday for starts but I have raced team pursuit with a 96.4. Starting is more about technique than the size of the gear. Of course, the larger the gear, the more strength one needs to get off the line for the same initial velocity as a smaller gear.
Another technique I have seen at the track for practicing starts is a weight vest and use a race gear versus using a larger gear to improve strength.
#7934
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
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Nice to be back on the track, @Hermes! Enjoy.
I did another ride yesterday with @Racer Ex. The game plan was to ride up Mt Veeder, then up/down another (bigger) hill on Trinity Rd into Sonoma, then back via a (yet bigger) climb called Cavedale. I wasn't sure what to expect from my legs, I was pretty tired. But legs are mysterious things, sometimes being tired doesn't matter. Ha! Not yesterday, I was hurting any time the road went up. And of course the road mostly went up.
I cried uncle about a mile from the top of Trinity. "You know, if we just turned around now, it's downhill all the way into Napa and we could have a nice lunch." Sometimes it's hard for me to understand why people stop without reaching the top. Oh, right, because they're legit tired.
Despite not riding that well, it was really fun, just a great route in great company.
Very torn today between getting on the TT bike for a recovery ride vs continued laying around. So far, laying around is winning out over riding.
I'm surprised to be so tired, I think I'm only at 175ish miles this week. But I rarely ride big weekly distances any more. It will be interesting to get home & see what kind of TSS WKO assigns to this week. It will probably be more than I think.
I'd like to get one more decent ride in tomorrow before we head home on Sun. Still trying to decide what & where.
I did another ride yesterday with @Racer Ex. The game plan was to ride up Mt Veeder, then up/down another (bigger) hill on Trinity Rd into Sonoma, then back via a (yet bigger) climb called Cavedale. I wasn't sure what to expect from my legs, I was pretty tired. But legs are mysterious things, sometimes being tired doesn't matter. Ha! Not yesterday, I was hurting any time the road went up. And of course the road mostly went up.
I cried uncle about a mile from the top of Trinity. "You know, if we just turned around now, it's downhill all the way into Napa and we could have a nice lunch." Sometimes it's hard for me to understand why people stop without reaching the top. Oh, right, because they're legit tired.
Despite not riding that well, it was really fun, just a great route in great company.
Very torn today between getting on the TT bike for a recovery ride vs continued laying around. So far, laying around is winning out over riding.
I'm surprised to be so tired, I think I'm only at 175ish miles this week. But I rarely ride big weekly distances any more. It will be interesting to get home & see what kind of TSS WKO assigns to this week. It will probably be more than I think.
I'd like to get one more decent ride in tomorrow before we head home on Sun. Still trying to decide what & where.
Last edited by Heathpack; 03-18-16 at 10:00 AM.
#7935
~>~
Back when DT control friction shifting and toeclips/straps were the hardware norms nearly every road race start was a cacophony of slipped gears and bobbled starts with the occasional pile up at the line as someone toppled at the gun and "dominoed" others down.
Those who practiced the techniques of a smooth, powerful and wobble free start and lined up next to teammates with similar skills could get away with no drama. The details matter, the 1st 40 meters can be as important as the last.......
-Bandera
#7937
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
That is such a fine looking badass machine!!! Without thinking I see "Grasshoppah"!!
Openers on the not nearly so badass TT bike of mine tomorrow. I get to ride against MEA and other champs on Sunday. Ex has threatened to be there. So has rain! No matter. [MENTION=71001]Hermes[/MENTION], I hope I get to say hello Sunday morning!
Openers on the not nearly so badass TT bike of mine tomorrow. I get to ride against MEA and other champs on Sunday. Ex has threatened to be there. So has rain! No matter. [MENTION=71001]Hermes[/MENTION], I hope I get to say hello Sunday morning!
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#7938
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
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That is such a fine looking badass machine!!! Without thinking I see "Grasshoppah"!!
Openers on the not nearly so badass TT bike of mine tomorrow. I get to ride against MEA and other champs on Sunday. Ex has threatened to be there. So has rain! No matter. @Hermes, I hope I get to say hello Sunday morning!
Openers on the not nearly so badass TT bike of mine tomorrow. I get to ride against MEA and other champs on Sunday. Ex has threatened to be there. So has rain! No matter. @Hermes, I hope I get to say hello Sunday morning!
Good luck Sunday. Have fun racing in the rain!
#7939
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
Thanks!!! I'm getting used to racing in the rain, so far this year I've done it quite a lot!
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#7940
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
Chuck - good luck this weekend!!
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#7941
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
My HR strap finally gave it up today. It's been getting wonky as of late, dropping out, reading low, and generally not being at all accurate. I had to get a new one today, and the only place that had one in stock was REI. I was pleased I had a 20% discount, it made the price a little more bearable....
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"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
#7943
Senior Member
heathpack, I did some of those same rides in Napa last september with my sister. Nice riding!
Apparently there is something to this 'rest when you are sick' thing, my cold never got very bad and is almost gone (knock on wood, crossing my fingers, jinx, etc). I'm in Tucson when I left home it was snowing lightly, it's high 80s here in Tucson. I did a short spin on the bike path to knock the dust off my legs, and tomorrow start a week of touring around southeastern Arizona.
I have 5 friends from various other tours on this trip, so it should be paceline heaven, and I'm gunning for all the city limit sprints.
Apparently there is something to this 'rest when you are sick' thing, my cold never got very bad and is almost gone (knock on wood, crossing my fingers, jinx, etc). I'm in Tucson when I left home it was snowing lightly, it's high 80s here in Tucson. I did a short spin on the bike path to knock the dust off my legs, and tomorrow start a week of touring around southeastern Arizona.
I have 5 friends from various other tours on this trip, so it should be paceline heaven, and I'm gunning for all the city limit sprints.
#7944
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
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Glad you made your trip, [MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION]. We expect pics.
Hope your stage race is going well, [MENTION=208276]revchuck[/MENTION].
Last day in Napa for us. We have had an awesome time- abundant wine & food & cycling & socializing. It has been a much-needed break from being disciplined & restrained. Feel very ready to get back at it once I'm home. Even though I've ridden 200 miles in the past 8 days, I just kind of feel relaxed & recharged. I have zero complaints about anything right now.
Today I went up and over Trinity Rd, the hill that defeated me 2 days ago. I got to the top and was thinking, "what's the fuss?". No idea how fast I did it or what my speed was or what the IF was. Whatever. Important stuff, just not today.
Hope your stage race is going well, [MENTION=208276]revchuck[/MENTION].
Last day in Napa for us. We have had an awesome time- abundant wine & food & cycling & socializing. It has been a much-needed break from being disciplined & restrained. Feel very ready to get back at it once I'm home. Even though I've ridden 200 miles in the past 8 days, I just kind of feel relaxed & recharged. I have zero complaints about anything right now.
Today I went up and over Trinity Rd, the hill that defeated me 2 days ago. I got to the top and was thinking, "what's the fuss?". No idea how fast I did it or what my speed was or what the IF was. Whatever. Important stuff, just not today.
#7945
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
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Yesterday I had two 20 min 105% TT intervals to get done. It was cold & damp & foggy. And dark of course. My glasses fogged up and wouldn't de-fog, even when I was moving at speed. So I had to ride with them pushed down onto the bridge of my nose in order to see over the top of them. Then the fog was condensing on my helmet and I had a sloooow drip of water onto my nose. I could see that drop of water forming and it would hang there seemingly forever until it finally broke free. That was not at all distracting, lol.
My only option for 20 min pre-dawn solo intervals is a road with stop lights (usually green in my direction that time of day) and right turns and also one TT-style 180 turn. I was a few watts below target but if I didn't have the power drops for the turns I think I would have made it.
Today was another couple of hours on the TT bike, some big gear stuff then high cadence. I rode with one of my Nightcrawler friends, she was wiped from running a half-marathon on the trail Sunday so wound up just drafting off me in the end. Perfect, I could just ride my pace while she hung on.
Coffee after and chatting about her son, the Boy Wonder. Mostly a trackie and mountain biker but he also races on the road. Fifteen years old and he races cat 3. Just got his first upgrade points this past weekend by coming in 4th in our local crit. I saw it on Facebook, he was super-stoked. He wants a win this season and to make it to cat 2, both of those are realistic goals. He's a good kid, it's nice to see him doing well.
My vacation was great but I like my local cycling life plenty well too. It's good to be back.
Day off tomorrow and then a group ride Thursday.
My only option for 20 min pre-dawn solo intervals is a road with stop lights (usually green in my direction that time of day) and right turns and also one TT-style 180 turn. I was a few watts below target but if I didn't have the power drops for the turns I think I would have made it.
Today was another couple of hours on the TT bike, some big gear stuff then high cadence. I rode with one of my Nightcrawler friends, she was wiped from running a half-marathon on the trail Sunday so wound up just drafting off me in the end. Perfect, I could just ride my pace while she hung on.
Coffee after and chatting about her son, the Boy Wonder. Mostly a trackie and mountain biker but he also races on the road. Fifteen years old and he races cat 3. Just got his first upgrade points this past weekend by coming in 4th in our local crit. I saw it on Facebook, he was super-stoked. He wants a win this season and to make it to cat 2, both of those are realistic goals. He's a good kid, it's nice to see him doing well.
My vacation was great but I like my local cycling life plenty well too. It's good to be back.
Day off tomorrow and then a group ride Thursday.
#7946
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
The gym felt goooooood yesterday!!
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#7947
Banned.
Coffee after and chatting about her son, the Boy Wonder. Mostly a trackie and mountain biker but he also races on the road. Fifteen years old and he races cat 3. Just got his first upgrade points this past weekend by coming in 4th in our local crit. I saw it on Facebook, he was super-stoked. He wants a win this season and to make it to cat 2, both of those are realistic goals. He's a good kid, it's nice to see him doing well.
The top 15 in the youth rankings, iirc, go straight to Cat 2. At the start of last season I was assistant commissaire when two new juniors, so just 16, ripped a 1/2/3 field apart. Only one Cat 1 took them seriously enough to bridge up to them, the three of them virtually lapped the field and the two kids just beat him to death in the last half-dozen laps. It was fun to watch.
#7948
Blast from the Past
Track session yesterday. Motor work and standing starts.
A 52/14 is a 100.3 gear inches based on a nominal 27 inch wheel. Many racers I know will use a 100.3 or bigger gear in team pursuit or the individual pursuit. It depends how fast one plans to race and the desired leg speed. I used a 91.8 yesterday for starts but I have raced team pursuit with a 96.4. Starting is more about technique than the size of the gear. Of course, the larger the gear, the more strength one needs to get off the line for the same initial velocity as a smaller gear.
Another technique I have seen at the track for practicing starts is a weight vest and use a race gear versus using a larger gear to improve strength.
A 52/14 is a 100.3 gear inches based on a nominal 27 inch wheel. Many racers I know will use a 100.3 or bigger gear in team pursuit or the individual pursuit. It depends how fast one plans to race and the desired leg speed. I used a 91.8 yesterday for starts but I have raced team pursuit with a 96.4. Starting is more about technique than the size of the gear. Of course, the larger the gear, the more strength one needs to get off the line for the same initial velocity as a smaller gear.
Another technique I have seen at the track for practicing starts is a weight vest and use a race gear versus using a larger gear to improve strength.
#7949
Version 7.0
Generally, I put them at the start of the session after the warmup, accelerations and 100 meter jumps. This is where it is a depends. If I am doing them early, then I do 1/4 lap or shorter starts. The idea is to build the ATP - PC system without impacting the glycolytic or aerobic. Even though they are fatiguing, if they are short, they do not impact the other efforts that much. If I am going to do more of them and do 1/2 lap and full lap efforts, I do them after the other work.
This is something to play around with and see how you feel. I do not think that there is a right or wrong way to do them. It is more about focus. I can do a better start if I am less tired. And they are always a function of the track traffic. Many times one has to do them when it is possible.
I watched the current women's world champions Team USA team pursuit team workout in Carson and Andy Sparks, their coach, ran a two hour session where they worked on team pursuit. They took a two hour break and came back and did some individual efforts and then 10 standing starts that included 1/4 and 1/2 lap starts.
This is something to play around with and see how you feel. I do not think that there is a right or wrong way to do them. It is more about focus. I can do a better start if I am less tired. And they are always a function of the track traffic. Many times one has to do them when it is possible.
I watched the current women's world champions Team USA team pursuit team workout in Carson and Andy Sparks, their coach, ran a two hour session where they worked on team pursuit. They took a two hour break and came back and did some individual efforts and then 10 standing starts that included 1/4 and 1/2 lap starts.
#7950
Blast from the Past
Makes sense to do technical work when you are rested. I've rarely done double sessions. I'll have to play around with that idea.