why bikes shouldn't be taxed like motorvehicles
#76
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It only costs 130K because the government is ridiculously corrupt. Bike paths have walkers, joggers and everyone else. As stated before thats already paid through property taxes. If the town does not wish to provide these bike paths they are under no obligation to. They say oh look what we built for you, vote for us, aren't we so great now you pay for something you didn't ask for.
I wonder some people here might be kgb government agents. I laughed when i first found out but then realized multiple candidates, super pacs and govt agencies do that regularly... what did i just hear about...it was Clintons campaign against Bernies online army but ive heard repubs talk about it in the past and know for sure they have agents as well. So this guy is working with whatever office wants this to happen. I couldn;'t imagine anyone not kgb saying they want to pay more for anything and being a jerk to others about it on the internet. Scary times. Plenty of people are dragged away in the night never to be seen again as well as the lives destroyed and jobs lost because of all these spies running around.
I wonder some people here might be kgb government agents. I laughed when i first found out but then realized multiple candidates, super pacs and govt agencies do that regularly... what did i just hear about...it was Clintons campaign against Bernies online army but ive heard repubs talk about it in the past and know for sure they have agents as well. So this guy is working with whatever office wants this to happen. I couldn;'t imagine anyone not kgb saying they want to pay more for anything and being a jerk to others about it on the internet. Scary times. Plenty of people are dragged away in the night never to be seen again as well as the lives destroyed and jobs lost because of all these spies running around.
#77
Cycle Year Round
#78
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Or how bicyclists contribute more in taxes for road maintenance than the cost of their contribution to road wear?
The average driver travels 10,000 miles in town each year and contributes $324 in taxes and direct fees. The cost to the public, including direct costs and externalities, is a whopping $3,360.
On the opposite pole, someone who exclusively bikes may go 3,000 miles in a year, contribute $300 annually in taxes, and costs the public only $36, making for a profit of $264. To balance the road budget, we need 12 people commuting by bicycle for each person who commutes by car. Source
Or how the cost of parking is included in prices bicyclists pay when they shop at a store with a parking lot, even though they don't need even close to a full parking space?On the opposite pole, someone who exclusively bikes may go 3,000 miles in a year, contribute $300 annually in taxes, and costs the public only $36, making for a profit of $264. To balance the road budget, we need 12 people commuting by bicycle for each person who commutes by car. Source
If bicyclists subsidizing motorists is "pure left field BS," then reality must have a strong liberal bias.
#79
Senior Member
Around here, I have yet to see any road with sharrows that would be better off with a bike lane. protected or not. On the other hand, we do have some roads with bike lanes, where sharrows would have been a better choice. (We also have roads with bike lanes where sharrows would be a bad idea.) The point is, not every road needs a bike lane. Sharrows have a role to play in bike infrastructure. Like bike lanes, sharrows can also be poorly implemented, but are great when properly implemented.
#80
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Most bike lanes are built in cities, where road construction and maintenance is paid for by property tax, which any property-owning cyclist already pays.
#81
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There is a lot of tax crap that property owners pay for that isn't fair, look at semi and professional sports arenas, those arenas and the salaries are all on the backs of the property owners whether the taxpayers like the sport or not. Sports related stuff is a commercial enterprise and therefore it should be on the backs of the team to bring in enough revenue to run itself, if it can't then goodbye and good riddance! This is why sports figures get paid massive salaries because the team is being partially supported by taxpayers, take that support away and players will get paid a more reasonable salary. So it isn't fair that 95% of the taxpayers have to pay for something that a few elitists get to enjoy.
It's the same with electric cars, why should I pay taxes to go toward some rich guy that buys a Tesla so they can get a $7,000 tax credit? This is when the vast majority of poor and middle class people cannot afford a Tesla yet they get to pay for the wealthy person to get one so they can enjoy their toy...a wealthy person who could afford the car without the tax credit. Or $40,000 plus in solar panels on the roof of a house gets a huge tax credit which at that price only the wealthy can afford, yet the poor to middle class people cannot, and it's those people who need to save money on electricity yet let's force them to pay for the wealthy to get lower electrical rates by helping them to buy solar panels.
Does any of that make any sense to you all or is this just some sort of la la land experience?
I ride a bike, I have several bikes in fact, I like the paths, I like to see more, I own several properties, yet I don't think it's fair that those that don't ride bikes and utilize the paths and lanes should pay for my fun just as it isn't fair for me to pay for the wealthy to buy Teslas and solar panels.
#82
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#83
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#84
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I feel your pain. In a similar vein, my dad had to serve in World War II. It was not fair. The USA did not ask if he felt it was fair that he put his life on the line for his country, while others did not.
The biggest difference? I never heard my Dad whine about it like you do.
The biggest difference? I never heard my Dad whine about it like you do.
By the way, you're the one who is the whiner because you don't want to pay a bike registration fee!
Last edited by rekmeyata; 05-20-16 at 07:06 AM.
#85
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They may "direct" all the money to cycling infrastructure, but for every dollar that comes in that way, they will subtract a dollar that used to come in from general funds. Net difference to cycling infrastructure = $0
That's what has happened in my home state with the lottery. In the 70s when they promoted it, they made a HUGE deal about how "all the proceeds of the lottery will go to education" Of course, it did, but they then removed that amount of education funding from other sources. Education gained $0, and we got a new tax on the poor and innumerate.
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Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
#86
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If you think for one second that cyclist tax money would not be appropriated and spent on something completely unrelated to cycling, you have not had much experience with tracking where money goes in government.
They may "direct" all the money to cycling infrastructure, but for every dollar that comes in that way, they will subtract a dollar that used to come in from general funds. Net difference to cycling infrastructure = $0
That's what has happened in my home state with the lottery. In the 70s when they promoted it, they made a HUGE deal about how "all the proceeds of the lottery will go to education" Of course, it did, but they then removed that amount of education funding from other sources. Education gained $0, and we got a new tax on the poor and innumerate.
They may "direct" all the money to cycling infrastructure, but for every dollar that comes in that way, they will subtract a dollar that used to come in from general funds. Net difference to cycling infrastructure = $0
That's what has happened in my home state with the lottery. In the 70s when they promoted it, they made a HUGE deal about how "all the proceeds of the lottery will go to education" Of course, it did, but they then removed that amount of education funding from other sources. Education gained $0, and we got a new tax on the poor and innumerate.
The lottery thing was a known ripoff before it started, a lot of people tried to warn others about it before it got voted in, but knuckleheads outnumbered the reasonable people and we got our lotteries. But with a lottery you can opt out, like you said it's a poor mans tax. Here in Indiana the lottery in 2015 paid out 30 million to police and firefighters pensions, another 30 mil to the teachers retirement fund, and 182 mil to rebuild/repair schools in the state which in turn reduces vehicle excise tax, so at least here in Indiana some of the money does get back to the intended purpose. About 5% of the lottery money goes to administration costs and the rest goes mostly to winners and second to the retailers that sold the tickets.
Here is a little information and a chart on all the states to show how each state spends it's money, find your state, see: What Percentage Of State Lottery Money Goes To The State? | FiveThirtyEight
By the way, when the lottery thing came up for vote NO ONE said that all the proceeds would go to education, all the proceeds would have meant that no one would ever win, none of the retailers who sell the tickets would make a commission, and no administration costs, which means there would be no reason to play the game if no one would win, so you made that up in attempt to make a point...though I hear you on your point just don't make up stuff to do so. It is true that very little in percentage to winnings and retail commissions go to the intended sources, which that chart in the web site I gave indicates.
Last edited by rekmeyata; 05-20-16 at 07:27 AM.
#88
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I would be in favor of a percentage sales tax, and/or registration on adult bikes bikes if it was used exclusively for cycling infrastructure, and education like what is done with OHVs.
A barcode registration tag tied to the bikes serial number, and an owner could help with the bike theft problem.
A barcode registration tag tied to the bikes serial number, and an owner could help with the bike theft problem.
#89
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I would be in favor of a percentage sales tax, and/or registration on adult bikes bikes if it was used exclusively for cycling infrastructure, and education like what is done with OHVs.
A barcode registration tag tied to the bikes serial number, and an owner could help with the bike theft problem.
A barcode registration tag tied to the bikes serial number, and an owner could help with the bike theft problem.
#90
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Some posters forget that bike lanes often are part of the road structure. I just went past an older four lane road that needed repaving last time I saw it. Now it's been resurfaced but it's two lanes with a center turn lane and bike lanes added. That's really nice but car tax helped pay for that. So it's probably fair that bicycles help pay for maintenance.
#92
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It is fine for toodling along at a near walking speed; but for commuters it is a danger zone. Fortunately the Salt Lake PD does not cite cyclists riding with, and at the pace of, other traffic, even though cyclists are required, by law, to use the narrow and unsafe trough that is assigned to them.
#93
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Then you haven't seen the bike lanes in Down Town Salt Lake. The things are just plain dangerous. They are narrow troughs with curbs on both sides and well in the door zone of cars parked to the left (traffic side) of the bike lane. People step, from their cars, directly into this bike lane.
It is fine for toodling along at a near walking speed; but for commuters it is a danger zone. Fortunately the Salt Lake PD does not cite cyclists riding with, and at the pace of, other traffic, even though cyclists are required, by law, to use the narrow and unsafe trough that is assigned to them.
It is fine for toodling along at a near walking speed; but for commuters it is a danger zone. Fortunately the Salt Lake PD does not cite cyclists riding with, and at the pace of, other traffic, even though cyclists are required, by law, to use the narrow and unsafe trough that is assigned to them.
Interesting.
#94
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Yes, I feel very comfortable cycling in the Salt Lake area.
#95
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Frankly, instead of those lanes, I do ride in the street, they just are not safe. And the limit is between 45 and 35 (it changes), not 50. I ride to work in a lane on a four lane 45mph street; I feel fine doing it. I also frequently ride on a six lane 45mph road. Again, I feel fine doing it. Sometimes I use the bike path; but I have to ride a lot slower than I normally do. As a result, I only use the dedicated facilities when I have plenty of time.
Yes, I feel very comfortable cycling in the Salt Lake area.
Yes, I feel very comfortable cycling in the Salt Lake area.
Yes, if you're a roadie that puts in miles on the road everyday, taking a lane on a busy highway isn't that big of a deal. That doesn't mean I pick those roads on purpose. I'll take a road with a striped bike lane over taking the lane any day. There is bike infrastructure in Phoenix that I feel is a bit ridiculous too, but lots of other people use it daily.
Just because something doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. I feel as cyclists, we should encourage others to ride bikes and encourage our cities to improve cycling and walkability. If you don't agree with the planned changes, there are plenty of opportunities for our voices to be heard. Phoenix has been having public hearings for almost six months on roughly two miles of bike infrastructure that will be changing next year - they want to hear from us, and in my past experiences, my opinions were heard.
#96
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Frankly, instead of those lanes, I do ride in the street, they just are not safe. And the limit is between 45 and 35 (it changes), not 50. I ride to work in a lane on a four lane 45mph street; I feel fine doing it. I also frequently ride on a six lane 45mph road. Again, I feel fine doing it. Sometimes I use the bike path; but I have to ride a lot slower than I normally do. As a result, I only use the dedicated facilities when I have plenty of time.
Yes, I feel very comfortable cycling in the Salt Lake area.
Yes, I feel very comfortable cycling in the Salt Lake area.
#97
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I have seen pictures of physically separated bike lanes that look good. In just have never seen any in person. I lived in China for eight years and still return frequently, my daughter lives there, and there the physically separated bike lanes were simply terrible. I realize some people want to see more of them; but they need to be done right, and I have never seen them done right.
#98
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At this point I don't have any fear that my state will start requiring bicycle registration, but the way it's being run if they hear about the idea they're likely to.
#99
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If you are talking about the downtown, physically separated, bike lane/trap I see most cyclists leaving the painted lane to avoid them (the bike lane funnels cyclists into the physically separated lane/trap). The only reason for pulling into them is if I am going to a business on that block. In this part of the city people are not going on recreational rides with small children.
I have seen pictures of physically separated bike lanes that look good. In just have never seen any in person. I lived in China for eight years and still return frequently, my daughter lives there, and there the physically separated bike lanes were simply terrible. I realize some people want to see more of them; but they need to be done right, and I have never seen them done right.
I have seen pictures of physically separated bike lanes that look good. In just have never seen any in person. I lived in China for eight years and still return frequently, my daughter lives there, and there the physically separated bike lanes were simply terrible. I realize some people want to see more of them; but they need to be done right, and I have never seen them done right.
Going by my personal experiences in Seattle, the complaints seem more like humble bragging than legitimate issues.
#100
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I was just curious as I read the same complaints about the bike lanes in Seattle on online sources, but most people use them rather than the lane in actuality.
Going by my personal experiences in Seattle, the complaints seem more like humble bragging than legitimate issues.
Going by my personal experiences in Seattle, the complaints seem more like humble bragging than legitimate issues.
To be fair, I didn't have time to ride as much as I would have liked (I was there for business, not pleasure), so it's quite possible that the sample of roads on which I road were not representative of the infrastructure Seattle has to offer. Also, most of my riding was in the Seattle metro area, but not in Seattle proper, instead on the other side of Lake Washington.